my winter hunting survival CORE gear (pic warning)

I have been looking at all the great kits here and have given my share of comments and opinions. Now I would like to share mine to see what everyone thinks. First a little background: When I hunt in the winter it is only for small game such as rabbit or grouse etc. As big game season is over here in Alberta it is a nice opportunity to get some exercise and enjoy the outdoors while I patiently wait for deer/moose/elk season to kick off again. Sometimes I just feel like snowshoeing but I will take the gun along just in case.(every time I don’t have it is when I wish I did) My truck is my base of operations if you will. I will park it somewhere and travel out on foot. My intent is always to stay within 5-6 Km of my truck and then make it back before dark. On three occasions (yes 3, I know) I have been unable to make it back to my truck but these items have seen me through till morning. In My truck I keep all the comforts to spend a few weeks if I had to: Tent, food, stoves w/ fuel, Gas lantern, dry clothes, repair kits, extra water etc, etc. I could spend a week describing what I keep in my truck on a hunting trip. My goal is always to make camp at my truck, hunt all day and make it back before dark to a nice, warm camp. In case things go wrong (for a fourth time) then what I carry has kept me out of trouble before. My first step as always is the plan. I know the areas where I go or I will study the map beforehand. I tell my wife exactly where I will park the truck and where I plan on walking. I will call her on my cell every 6 hours. I tell her that if I miss a call not to panic, but if I miss two calls then something is wrong. If I cannot get a hold of her, even if all is well I will abort my trip and find a landline, or just push for home to avoid her calling SAR in a worry. I have thankfully never had to do this, and even on those times when I couldn’t make it back to my truck and had to spend a night under the frozen stars I was able to call her and tell her all was well(once my call wouldn’t go through but a text message did…. funny….)

Anyway. Here it is in a nutshell. This is my core kit. It is what will be in my winter pack no matter what winter activity I am doing. For ice fishing I will add some items (like a rod and tackle) and drop others (like my gun and LRF etc) most items will remain the same. For the times when I plan on an overnighter then I will add extra clothes and my alpine tent, air mattress , cook set etc but for my normal day hunt my goal is always to make it back to my trunk to spend the night, and head out again the next morning. My backpack of choice is the Eberlestock J104 pack. It may not be suited to some lightweight backpackers needs but it goes from a 2900 cubic inch daypack to a 7900 cubic inch meat hauler in just a few zipper pulls. It has a rifle scabbard built in, a hydration system and a reversible rain cover. You can check it out at http://www.eberlestock.com/index.html .It is truly a hunting pack but can be used as a great trekker as well.
This is my mini PSK.
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This goes everywhere I do as part of my EDC and gets packed inside my outer clothing shell in an inside shirt pocket or pants pocket. This way it will be with me in case I have to ditch my pack (falling through ice etc) If TSHTF I should be at least in possession of this and whatever is in my pockets.(I have a pelican L1 and a SAK on my key chain plus my cold steel ultimate hunter , cell phone in dry bag, surefire E2E etc which remains in my pockets just in case. If I am in such a bad situation that I lose this mini PSK it means that I have also lost all my clothes and then I am in real trouble (especially considering it dropped to -48 with wind chill in Alberta today) If I do have to ditch my gear at least I can get a fire going and signal for help with this mini kit. I placed the items in a zip lock bag, then inside another and wound it with yellow GUN tape to make the case. A quick snip with scissors and I have a re-sealable, cheap, easy to replace pouch. There is glow in the dark tape wrapped around the body and it will float. The expiry date of the water puri tabs is written on the outside. It is about the size of a bar of soap so it is not a pain in the a@# to have on me at all times. These are the contents:

[img][IMG]http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh19/zazabu531/minisurvivalkitcontents.jpg[/img][/img]
• 3 Coughlin’s wax tinder
• 3 spark lite tinder
• 12 inches of 2 in duct tape, yellow – Repairs to clothing, water bag etc
• Aluminum foil, Approx 3' – use to make cup for boiling water, as a fire platform, to cook or as a fire reflector.
• Utility knife blade, heavy duty – to cut string for shelter etc, as a backup, backup, backup if knife is lost.
• Mine string, braided. Approx 20 ft – Use to lash poles for shelter, use for repairs etc
• Mini BIC lighter, button held by lock wire.
• Spark-lite(military issue)
• Starflash signal mirror, Survival Inc.
• Jetscream survival whistle, Survival Inc.
• Ziploc bag (water ¾ full when held at top = 1 L) – To store water for purification.
• 1 knuckle bandage
• 1 betadine packet
• 4 water purification tablets

Carried in my pack in a small Army issue tool kit I have the following:

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• LED headlamp (Browning black ice), multi colored LED, red, green, blue and white
• Roll of toilette paper in field dispenser(when you gotta go, wiping with snow is no fun at all, backup tinder)
• S.O.G multi-tool(military issue)
• Hot hands hand warmers x 4(optional winter)
• Survival whistle, jetscream
• Signal mirror, starflash
• 4 sheets of write in the rain paper
• 2 x 3 foot sheets of tin foil
• Water purification tablets( 12 Micro-pur and 36 puri- tabs, military issue)
• Roll of Military trip wire with 2 broadhead nails, 2 x spark light tinder’s inside tube. (military issue) for snares, repairs etc
• Suunto compass(military issue) can take bearings. in Mils rather than deg for better accuracy. back up signal mirror.
• Blast match sparking tool
• Enviro sac water bottle(backup to source bladder or Nalgene bottle)
• 24 x Mariner lifeboat matches/ 2 x striker patches (sealed, military issue)
• 10 x Coghlans wax tinder and 2 x wetfire tinder (inside match vial)
• BIC lighter(sealed in plastic and gagged with wire) wire keeps lighter from discharging
• Arctic survival candle(military issue) first light candle with BIC, then light fire. Takes the chill out of a shelter
• 15 Minute road flare(signal, can be cut into pieces to light a fire in ANY weather condition fast) not shown
• 50 foot roll of yellow trail tape(day trail marker)
• 30 foot roll of glow in the dark trail tape(not shown) night trail/camp marker
• Spare batteries(2x AA, 3x AAA, 2 surefire)
• 60 feet of 5 strand Para cord(military issue)
• Gerber LSK (back up knife) should I manage to break the other 5
• 2x 12 hour glow sticks (green, military issue)backup light, marking camp, downed game etc
• 8 x mini glow sticks (yellow, military issue)trail/kit markers
• Large gaff hook
• spearhead
• Mini hacksaw blade(never know when cutting a piece of metal will come in handy)
• 4 x grenade pins(repairs for broken zipper pulls, use to fix broken straps)
• 6 x heavy duty safety pins(large)
• 4 x double headed nails(tent pegs for tarp, improvised traps)
• EZ lap diamond knife sharpener
• Small wooden pencil w/eraser
• Small spool of thread(military issue)tougher than hell
• Large sewing needle (tapped to pencil)
• Fishing kit in orange match vial, wrapped with 12 feet of orange GUN tape(assorted hooks, spinners, lead shot, and 50 feet of 20 lb test line.)
• Medical kit(standard items)
• 2 feet of surgical tubing(emergency tourniquet, water siphon)
• Shell dressing(for larger owies)
• Tube of Vaseline(keeps laces or zippers from freezing, prevents chapped hands, back up tinder)
• Tube of SPF 33 sun block(even in winter, it will prevent windburn to your face)
• Garmin GPS(not shown) Camera(not shown)


By keeping these items in the tool bag I can grab the bag and gain assess easily. Other items are added or taken away from the bag depending on season (bug spray for example) the signal mirror and whistle is doubled because I always carry the mini PSK but I don’t always have the pack. (Sliding with the kids etc) I didn’t want to be always switching these important items so I carry them in double to prevent being without them.

[img][IMG]http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh19/zazabu531/outdoors1017.jpg[/img][/img]

Other items in pack include:

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• Peak 1 multi fuel stove with handle(case makes excellent pot )
• Spare naphtha generator
• MSR fuel bottle with funnel
• SS mini kettle (filled with brew kit)hot choco ,soup mix ,tea and coffee
• Survival tarp, orange/ reflective(super heavy duty)
• Survival sheet(HD plastic, closed on 3 sides)stuff with leaves for emergency mattress etc
• Space blanket
• HD wool socks (military issue) wet feet suck, any time of the year. I ALWAYS carry spare socks
• Gore-tex socks(military issue) see above
• Arctic mittens (military issue) as a back up to the trigger mitts I am wearing. rated to -60 deg Cel, cold hands suck as bad as wet feet
• Military IMP (emergency food) contains one complete meal. This is the Canadian version of the American MRE. Contains entrée, fruit, bread, jam, peanut butter, soup, tea and coffee, assorted condiments, chocolate bars, candy, wet naps and matches. (MRE heater separate and not shown)
• J104 rain cover (for driving rain, or wet snow) It makes an excellent rain catch and a place to lay out my small stuff so it won’t get lost in the snow. It is reversible to be used as a panel marker/day signal and can be stuffed with grass etc to make a cozy seat or pillow. I actually can take off my pack and pull this cover almost over myself in the turtle position for a quick way to avoid a flash rain storm.
My field blades:

[img][IMG]http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh19/zazabu531/survivalgear006.jpg[/img][/img]
• Swiss army tinkerer knife(on keychain) not shown
• Cold steel ultimate hunter folder(not shown)
• Cold steel Kukri machete (out cuts most small axes)safer and lighter, can dig as good as some folding shovels
• Gerber gator XDP(razor sharp, usually reserved for skinning/dressing of game)
• Gerber exchange a blade folding saw with wood and bone blade(cutting over head branches for tree stand placement, can saw through hard plastic and sheet metal)
• At the top of this pic is the SOURCE bladder that comes with the J104. There is a compartment built into the pack for it. Works great in spring/summer/fall. Sucks in winter. No way to keep it from freezing. In winter I use a 2 L collapsible water canteen (military issue) or a wide mouth Nalgene bottle instead.
These are my fancy dancy snow shoes with trekking poles. If carrying a gun the poles stay in my truck. If ice fishing I have a plastic insert which fits in the gun scabbard in the J104 and I will carry the rod there. These can be adjusted for summer use as well. The snow shoes strap nicely to the outside of the pack, but the rain cover must be removed.

[img][IMG]http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh19/zazabu531/outdoors1023.jpg[/img][/img]

Well….that’s the most of it I guess. It might appear to be excessive to some but keep in mind that this is what I take to hunt far away from civilization in the dead of winter all by my lonesome. As such I don’t mind a little extra weight. On that note I don’t want to get too heavy because as the meat compartment gets filled with game or fish it gets real heavy for the return trip to my truck. That’s another reason I try to stay between 5-6 K , learned my lesson a few years back when I shot a nice elk 8.5 Km from my truck over rough terrain(no usable roads to drive closer) I wasn’t paying attention to how far away I was getting but I well paid the price when I had to hump the sucker out in two separate trips. Depending on what activity I am doing there are other items added that were not mentioned: Maps(always), snow goggles, sunglasses, Binos, LRF and other items like game calls, cover scents, and tree stand gear etc. As such I have the pack weighing in at 25 lbs with my winter core gear. When I add other hunting stuff (gun, ammo, etc) it will be around the 40 lb mark. In summer/fall for big game season a lot of the heavier items will be dropped when there is no danger of freezing to death(such as the stove etc) and the total weight drops down to about 20 lbs. So far this gear has helped me out more than once in a bad situation. I would like to hear every ones comments/complaints/suggestions. No matter how good something is there is always room to improve (and an excuse to go shopping for more gear)

[img][IMG]http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh19/zazabu531/outdoors1006.jpg[/img][/img]

Nice looking setup!

Ditto! Does look nice; I might end up PM'ing you for some cold-weather advice. My only real question is, if it's -48 with windchill, how come you don't look cold????

Hi Taurus,

Excellent looking winter set-up and good job documenting it in your post.

Good Luck Hunting!

Mike

High Quality Work..a real kit and just not some odd and ends tossed together in an attempt to make a "survival kit"..
knowing your neck of the woods and what to expect in it and
getting the right gear into place is what it should all be about and not some fantasy about rocks from space--or whatever--

Cool post thanks!
How has your Peak-1 worked out? I used to work at a very busy REI and we got a lot that leaked or just plain broke. Of course a lot of the stoves got returned because the user never read the instructions and clogged it up with soot. But I did see a lot of broken Coleman product. I prefer MSR stoves myself.
Bill

Awesome set up. Just what's needed with a bit extra for emergencies.

Makes me want to go out and shoot bunnies.

Of course I don't own a rifle...

Are dead bunnies a good reason to invest in a firearm for the first time ever or do I need professional help?

Hacksaw,

Go ahead and get a rifle. The Ruger 10/22 is a great little rifle. Besides, you're a gear junkie. What other "excuse" do you need?

Nice Kit

Fishing equipment – (Granted its not a real big item) Is this very practical? Not sure how the ice conditions would be in your neck of the woods, but trying to chip through >18+ of ice with the tools you’ve assembled doesn’t look practical

Spare wool/fleece cap? Base layer? FAK?

Does the Case come with the Peak stove?

Ice fishing is very...VERY...popular here. Any lake with fish in it will have pre-drilled and iced over holes everywhere for 10 minutes walk in any direction from the nearest boat launch or pier (or anywhere you can drive onto the lake). Then you only have to chop through a little bit of ice.

My dad and I used to do that all the time when we were lazy...when his auger was powered by ME and not by gasoline

If you were on foot in the bush and not near civilization it could be tricky but it's doable. If I needed food that bad I'd make a spear with one of my knives, ask forgiveness from the patron saint of sharps and chip away. You don't need a very big hole to get a decent sized fish out.


I have next to no experience with rifles (I haven't fired one in 10 years or more) but that Ruger looks nice. I'm partial to getting something that can be broken down and stowed in a pack like a Springfield Arms M6 or a US Survival Rifle.

For me I think the most important feature would be how easy it is to maintain both at home and in the field. I like low maintenance.

Thank you all for your comments and kind words. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there is more than one way to survive in the woods I guess. My kit works for me, but may not for the next guy. My old man was never in the Army, but he would give survivorman a run for his money any day of the week. His hunting kit usually consists of a BIC lighter, an old ragged plaid coat, rubber boots, a 60 year old knife that has been sharpened 1000 times at least, and a pocket full of loose bullets. He never takes a compass but has never been lost. Every time we go hunting together he gets the bigger animal and manages to teach me something I never knew before. I have a 2700 dollar gun and he uses an old .303 British rifle and can shoot better with iron sights than I can with my scope half the time. I am by no means a slouch in the field, but with my thousands of dollars in fancy stuff he will always show me some new survival trick. It goes to show that gear is gear but skill and experience can’t be bought at MEC. (I still like my gear better than his though)

To answer a few questions:

MDinana – When I wrote the post it was -48 deg outside, but this is an older picture taken on another trip. It was only around -5 or -10 at the time.

Billym – The peak 1 works great for me. The peak 1 and the Coleman 2 burner are current Army issue. I got a couple of peaks and 1 of the 2 burner stoves simply because I can get unlimited free parts at work. When the temp really drops, Naphtha is far superior to other types of fuel IMHO. No valves to freeze like with propane stoves, and no heating paste used with other types unless you are using kerosene as fuel. Parts are easy to replace and the stove is easy to light and operate with gloves (big plus this time of year) the peak on the highest setting can get boiling water from solid ice in about 5 min flat. With a full tank of fuel and with what’s in the MSR bottle I can easily make it last a couple of days. The fact that the peak 1 is a multi-fuel stove is a big seller as well. (Naphtha, kerosene and apparently gasoline which I have never tried)

Hacksaw – no there is nothing wrong with shooting bunnies as long as you intend to eat them. They make a NICE stew. If you need professional help, then I must be going straight to hell. You don’t even need a license to shoot rabbit in Alberta, only to trap them. You are the only Albertan I know who doesn’t own at least 1 rifle. It’s time to give in to peer pressure. Be careful though, if you think survival gear is addictive then wait till you get involved with shooting as a hobby. I spend 10 times more on reloading and guns than I ever will on survival gear. My first gun was a .22 as well, now at over 40 guns I still want more. I am currently trying to get Wholesale sports to special order me a Smith & Wesson .500 revolver for the low price of 1300 bucks. The Ruger 10/22 is a great little gun like MoBOB said. They are fairly cheap as well. The reason I got one is that they are probably the most customizable rifle on earth and one of my hobbies is fooling with guns. If you want better reliability, especially in Alberta weather then I would suggest a bolt action over a semi-auto any day. Look at the Remington model 504. Those survival models are compact, but loose and clumsy and thus very inaccurate. You are Best off with a full size as they are really light anyway, but with far superior performance. For ease of maintenance nothing beats a bolt action rifle.


JohnnyUpton - The fishing kit in my core gear is for emergencies only. It’s more of a comfort item than a real lifesaver. If I am going ice fishing instead of hunting then I take the appropriate gear for that task. I guarantee you that if my life depended on it I could get through 18 inches of ice with my Kukri in short order. In my opinion at least, it would be LESS practical to bring the extra weight/bulk for a dedicated ice auger or the like. I keep the small fishing kit because the ice isn’t always 18 inches thick (it stays in my kit as part of my summer gear as well) I would most likely have more luck using the hooks with my roll of wire and using them to hook Magpies or crows in a survival situation than fish. It’s actually not a very important part of my kit, that’s why I kept it small and simple. Besides, in Alberta at this time of year if I was lost and help wasn’t soon to arrive I wouldn’t be wasting energy screwing around with holes in the ice but rather I would be building a fire, a shelter and then finding a way to signal for help. I don’t know what part of the USA you hail from but in Alberta, Canada in January you will freeze to death long before you need to worry about fishing. That’s why I have such an emphasis on FIRE, SHELTER, and SIGNALLING.
I carry a fleece toque in my pocket when not worn and a neoprene neck warmer/gaiter in my bag if needed. Usually when the snow starts falling hard I pull up my hood. I did mention that I have a FAK. The items are the same as everyone else probably has so I didn’t get into much detail. The clothing that I wear would have made the post too long so I didn’t touch on it much. Maybe I will in a different post. Yes, the peak comes with the case.


Sorry for the long reply, but since you guys took the time to ask questions it would be rude not to reply with an answer.

Thanks for the tips bro.

One of the reasons I've been thinking about dabbling with hunting small game is because it's a skill I don't have (both the shooting and the dismantling of a woodland critter) and one day eating one might be the key to my survival...and that's not the right time to learn. The other reason I that I hear they're good eating!


Back to the fishing I couldn't imagine a worse place to be than on a lake at -48C. No shelter, no wood for fire, and killer wind potential. The night before last there were areas in Alberta gusting to nearly 100kmh...the lakes must have been lethal cold.

For what you intend to do with it, it would be hard to beat the good old .22 rifle: Accurate, no recoil, minimal noise, minimal weight, cost effective and very reliable. A crate of 5000 rounds only costs 250 bucks. That’s one hell of a lot of shooting. Skinning ANY game isn’t pleasant, but it is something that you will get used to over time. (If you have kids then changing diapers is FAAARRRR worst than dressing any rabbit. ) When cooked right, rabbit and grouse are VERY tasty items indeed.

I hear you on the cold snap we are having. Our pickup truck at work was down today because all the flipping fluids froze. The hydraulic fluid in our forklift froze and the lines busted. And we needed a torch to de- ice all the bunker locks. The news said that it was -55 deg cel at Edmonton international today. I took a bottle of water outside and actually watched it freeze in my hand. Kina neat actually…..

Hi Taurus,

I have been enjoying your posts and the replies, Thanks.

Hacksaw, concerning lightweight, takedown .22 cal rimfire rifles I was in the mood to buy a new toy last spring and went through the same comparison shopping of models you are. I think the Ruger 10/22 is the best rifle of the bunch, but I wanted a take-down version from the factory without having to buy aftermarket parts (I still may buy a 10/22 just because I want one). I then looked at all the other take-downs and settled on the Marlin Papoose which I used quite a bit last fall and was happy with it. The post about this purchase can be found here http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=113157&fpart=1 Taurus is right, your from Alberta, you need a rifle!

Taurus, I am also a very active hunter/handloader/shooter but I have never got into handguns because of them not being legal to hunt with/carry in Canada. Is the S&W .500 for bear protection, what are the legal requirements like to get a wildlife protection carry permit in Alberta?

Any chance of fitting a compressed sleeping bag in you winter kit? I bought one years ago called "The Kilo" that weighs just that and compresses small. It is not rated very low but with a layered approach like Hacksaw discribed earlier it would proably take the edge off the cold. A Heatsheet Bivy Bag would also be a good addition in your pack if you had to spend a night out, and a Heetsheet blanket in your on-body pocket would be handy if you had to ditch your pack. AMK Heetsheet stuff is available at MEC or LeBarons in Canada, I have bought from both (LeBarons is often slightly cheaper but MEC has far better customer service). When I got turned around last fall with just my on-body kit it was the shelter aspect I was lacking/wishing for most.

I understand your rational for not wanting the bulk/weight of an ice auger but what I often do is replace the machete with a mid-side axe. The axe I use the most for chopping ice when I am testing the thickness for safety is the rubber handled-steel shafted Estwing. It is very easy to break the wooden handle on an axe when chopping ice (you need to chop in a long V shape, and clear the centre ice before you punch through or you will get very wet from splash). An axe is heavier and more clumbersome but does chop/split better.

While snowmobiling I have found old ice fishing holes on remote lakes (as Hacksaw mentioned) that I just punched-out with my heel and used with success. The holes freeze over from the outside-in so you may end up swaging your fish through a small 4" hole that was originally a big 10" hole.

Here is a debate; I have eaten a few US MRE's and many Canadian IMP's and call me patriotic but I like the Canadian ones better ... eh? Although the cracker in the MRE is much better than the bread in an IMP.

I agree with you about the Canadian Artic Mitts being great. I needed a new pair in Black to replace my 10 year old ones and the only place I could find them was at SIR here http://www.sirmailorder.ca/show_prod.php...6841217c98fcff8

How do you folks compress a long product reference like above to a small link (sorry I am new to this computer stuff)?

Finally I have to agree with you about the skill of old experienced woodsmen, what they lack in equipment they sure make up for in knowledge and grit.

Good thread Taurus.

Mike

Hey Taurus,

We are the opposite weather wise here 1/2 way across the country, it was +2*c today and the snowpacked roads all melted. The grader went past twice and filled my huge driveway I share with my neighbour with 2 feet of very heavy slop. It was tough shoveling but if I did not remove it ASAP then I would have a solid ice wall in the morning, that my DW would back into with the mini-van, again.

Mike

Make no mistake. There is no way in hell I will ever be legally allowed to carry a .50 cal hand gun in Canada but I still can own one. I will only be able to take it to the range. Funny how my government trained me to use every weapon from the 9mm service pistol up to and including the Eryx anti-tank missile but will not trust me to carry a simple pistol for protection in civi land. I am still deciding on the purchase of this gun. Some would ask why I would want a handgun which is capable of shooting down a satellite in orbit. My answer is that sometimes we need to buy things that make no sense at all, just for fun. I love talking about survival on this forum, but survival aside I also enjoy LIVING. I love high power handguns, especially one that has bullets as long as my finger and as big around as quarter.
Sooooooo… a fellow re-loader eh? Nice to know if I have any questions. I spent this weekend reloading some new Hornady XPT 125 grain JHPs for my .357 mag. Next weekend if I don’t head out to Smokey lake for a bit of ice fishing I have a fresh box of Barnes - x triple shock 168 grain, and Hornady SST 150 grain in .30-06 to do using accurate 2700 powder.
To answer this question, I have considered a lightweight sleeping bag or sleep system like Hacksaw has, but the bulk is the killer. I try to keep the meat compartment of my pack clear for the game and fish. If I take too much stuff there is less room for the game. On those occasions where I do take a sleep system I usually just take my Army issued stuff as It is rated to about -60 deg cel. I hate to buy new stuff when the Army gives it to me for free. I have been turned around once or twice myself and had to spend the night away from safety. Usually with a roaring fire, fresh green bows for a bed, and my reflective tarp made into a nice lean-to I am quite comfortable. My best defense against the Alberta cold is my clothing and I rely on that more than a sleeping bag. I could probably curl up in the snow and take a good nap without any problem with my clothing system. I used to head out with a Mustang survival suit but changed because the one piece suits allow very little ventilation. While walking, even in this cold ventilation is so very important as no matter what you will sweat while snowshoeing. Maybe I will post my clothes system later so we can compare notes so to speak.
I used to carry a Gerber axe but the Kukri fit flat in my pack and thus was easier to carry. You would be surprised at how this knife can dig and chip through ice. By using a downward stabbing motion rather than a chop it gets through ice rather fast. It doesn’t send chips of ice up into your face like an axe does either. It is a bit slower granted, but still does the job.
I have eaten just about every countries Military rations and a lot will agree that Canada produces some of the best. The biggest [censored] off IMO is that a lot of the items rely on hot water(instant mashed potatoes, rice, dressing etc) This is fine when I am hunting on my own time but a real pain when on operations and you need to eat fast and don’t have time for boiling water. Every field exercise I go on I end up getting a bunch of them to take home so I can’t complain I suppose. Military rations are not cheap. All the rations allocated to a unit before an exercise are written off by supply and replacements ordered. When the unit gets back from the field whatever is left is considered expended and cannot be restocked. If I don’t take them home they will be thrown into a dumpster. I cannot stand by and see this happen so I usually take the whole lot home rather than see them wasted. What I don’t need I give away. I have collected 10 CASES for my emergency food supply, plus a bunch for hunting and 6 which remain in my truck at all times. I have given my neighbor several cases as well. He loves them (a civilian) but after eating rations every day for months on end in Afghanistan I would gladly take a case of American MREs in exchange. The snack bread and jalapeño cheese spread in the MREs is awesome.

If you want a pair of Canadian Military issued arctic mittens check ebay as they have some for 20 bucks. This is a steal as they are about 150 bucks a pair. The only drawback is that you need to take them off for any detailed work. They are rated to -50 or -60 deg cel so it’s hard to beat the warmth they offer. especially for snowmobiling. The new versions are replacing the old trigger mitts and have a single retractable finger so you can pull a trigger with them on. If you want black the closest you will find are made in the USA by wiggys but they are Expensive suckers. check them out at http://wiggys.com

Hi Taurus,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I hear you brother about no handgun hunting in Canada, I wish we could use them but can't; therefore I am not in to them and spend my play cash on other stuff.

Let me know how your Barnes bullets shoot, I have only used them in my muzzleloader, where they worked great. I have a bunch of Nosler Partions in stock so I have been using them up before I give the new Barnes- X triple shocks a try. I have shot a lot of deer with Hornady Spire points (.30 cal 165gr and 180 gr) with good success, not as rapid expansion/energy transfer but then they almost always exited, leaving a good blood trail. This is nice as we rifle hunt deer in very thick balsam cover. I used Nosler B-Tips (similar to SST's) on 6 deer and they usually went down on the spot, but penetration was limited do to rapid expansion.

The sleep system I was thinking about is a smaller one than Hacksaw posted; like a small bag (maybe the inner bag of the Canadian system), with a Heetsheet Bivy inside or maybe outside, used in combination with your clothing to reach cold weather temps.

I had a one piece mustang suit about 10 years ago and would really sweat in it when drilling ice holes by hand. The foam insulation came loose and all fell to the bottom so I trashed it. I used a Scent-Lok suit this year while deer hunting in the snow and got extremely hot, it trapped the heat in to the point where even my poly-pro undershirt was soaked.

I have the same Kurki machete as you and when I find it in the house I will give it a try on the lake ice?

I have eaten a lot of Canadian rations but only a few American, I like there snack bread and jam better than ours.

I have found the white Canadian Mitts at Army Surplus Stores for a good price but I needed a pair in black colour. The new ones sold at SIR are the current military issue and you can get them in both colours, so I bought a black pair for around $100.00. They are the best mitts I have ever used, I wear Thermax glove liners inside the mitts so when I take the big mitts off to work my hands do not freeze.

I liked the pack you posted earlier and was suprised on the reasonable price when I checked out the website.

Later,

Mike

I just realized while browsing for a good bolt action rifle is that I'm left handed. Might be an argument for a semi-auto though I hear those can be tricky for south paws too.

Looks like Savage makes some inexpensive left hand bolt action models.

I appreciate the advice guys.

Goodmorning Hacksaw,

Being left handed does limit the amount of bolt action models available, often safety catches are then backwards too. My hunting partner is left hand but has never had a problem firing right handed semi-autos/pumps/levers/breaks actions , I tested the Papoose for this last year with no problem.

If you are left handed you should also check which is your dominant eye. I know a few people who are cross-eye dominant (more who are left handed), if you are cross-eye dominant then you have to decide if you are going to shoot with your strong hand or strong eye.

Here is an article on how to test which eye is dominant, it is very easy and takes about 10 sec. http://woolleyshooting.com/Articles/eye.html

Do you have the Federal PAL process done yet, it takes a while?

Good luck,

Mike

I've signed up for a firearms safety course with AHIEA in a couple of weeks. I've also been researching what I need to do to get my PAL (exams, etc) though it's hard to find anything from work as any website that even mentions a firearm gets blocked by IT. I also plan on taking their online Conservation and Hunter Education Training course this week.

Even if I don't become a huge hunter, I still want to learn about it. If nothing else, it will be a great benefit to my SAR work.

I did the dominant eye test (and found more online) and it would appear that I'm one of the rare people who are equally dominant in either eye as every test I tried didn't really work. I know I had a dominant eye when I wore glasses but that may have chanced since my laser eye surgery a year ago. When I point at something in the distance I see two fingers equally as well.

Years ago I tried firing a semi-auto .22 right handed and it was too awkward to be safe...just thinking about the logistics of it now make my head spin as I'm VERY left handed...like using a right handed hockey stick. I can't even visualize how I'd hold it!

The Papoose looks like a quality gun...and it breaks down which is what I'm looking for. I may start with something more affordable like a second hand gun just to get going. I'm also intrigued by the Henry Repeating Arms US Survival Rifle. It's inexpensive enough that if I catch the same bug Taurus has I won't break the bank right away and get a good financial head start on the next purchase.

Hey Taurus, just I little info on the S&W 500 magnium. If you're going to go for it make sure to wear a glove, I could not hold the gun steady in recoil and literaly had it shift in my grip. In 3 shots my palms were red and sore, kinda like a rug burn......
I have shot a BFR single astion model with a six and a half inch barrel and the Smith with the stubby 4" and the extensive porting. The smith, when gloves were worn, was enjoyable to shoot and not overly abusive. Abusive, but not too bad. The BFR was a beast no matter what. No perting at all. If you are going to target shoot I'd suggest the shorty smith, and I'm quite sure you'd still be able to kill anything within 100 meters w/o problems if you went hunting with it. Shooting at a 1/4 solid steel target that was manhole sized at 50 feet or so......it was possible to "flip" it almost horizontal shooting the lower edge

-Bill Liptak

Hi Hacksaw,

We may be taking this post off on a tangent and for that I apoligize in advance to Taurus.

I cannot speak about getting your Hunting Licence and Federal Firearms Licence in Alberta but I can tell you how it is usually done in Northern Ontario. Most people take the combined Prov. Hunting/Fed. Firearms Course over a series of weeknights or on a weekend, they then write the 2 exams and do the practical handling test. (Cost is between $200 and $300)

To get your Provincial Hunting Licence you then just go to a Ministry of Natural Resource office, show them your qualifications and buy the licence tags you want (you get a paper temporary licence on-the-spot, a plastic Outdoor Card arrives later in the mail).

The Federal Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) is a fair bit more involved. You fill out the forms, pay them a fee ($60) get a passport type photo, sign up references, plus your spouse or ex-spouses all of whom will be contacted for a reference after your Criminal Security check is done. This process will take months but a PAL is required before a new adult hunter can purchase a firearm/ammo or possess a firearm outside the direct and immediate supervision of another adult licence holder. It is a long process but you only have to do the testing once and the licence is renewed every 5 years. To possess restricted or prohibited weapons the process is even much more involved.

The Canadian Firearms Centre has a decent website located here http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/default_e.asp

I do not wish to discourage you about getting involved in shooting and hunting, I think it is well worth the effort and my son recently went through the whole process with no problem.

Concerning eye dominance, that is great that both your eyes work well, if you are left handed then shooting left should not be a problem for you. I had a question on the forum about shooting my new Papoose rifle left handed so I tried it. Being right handed it felt very awkward for me but the functioning of the rifle and ejection of the casings were no problem (the push button safety would be backward, I do not know if you can reverse it, not a big deal?)

I checked out a lot of take-down .22 rifles before I bought the Papoose. The Henry US Survival Rifle was very interesting but it did not fit me well and has a bad reputation for jamming and poor accuracy; search it on the web for details (it was called the AR7 in the past). Depending on the finish the cost is nearly that of the Papoose.

The papoose was not overly expensive, I bought it mailorder at SIR for $255.00 plus tax and shipping, see it here http://www.sirmailorder.ca/show_prod.php...294b8602dcf5450 . I found it was difficult to find one of these used? There is lots of info on the Papoose on the web.

I will agree with Taurus that the Ruger 10/22 stainless/synthetic that he hunts with is proabaly a better firearm, but the take-down feature is only available with some aftermarket additions (e.g. change barrel connector, new folding stock). I also agree that semi-auto's are proabaly the sporting action which requires the most maintainence to keep them functioning well, expecially in cold or dirty conditions.

Other very interesting and versatile survival/hunting firearms are the combination guns; the Savage 24 series or the Springfield M6. This gives you a shotgun and rifle in one firearm, I often carry a Savage 24 Camper Companion in .22 rimfire over 20 gauge, it is very handy.

Taurus is correct in that the hunting bug is easy to catch and can get very expensive, what a great way to spend time in the bush though.

Nice talikng with you,

Mike

I don't think Taurus will mind this thread talking about firearms more than his gear LOL.

I've been looking very closely at the 24C. Having both a .22 and a 20 gauge shotgun in one solid and simple unit is exactly my type of hardware. I see that there are a lot used on the web but some are quite old. How hard are they to take down into pieces? Is that even an option?

I'm in no hurry so if it takes months then I can live with that. The safety course I'm taking is free and the hunter safety course is offered online for only $70 from the same outfit. I'll just need to find somewhere to do my written and practical exam...I still haven't learned if the same place does that as well...it may.

Swampdonkey - The Barnes bullets IMO are the best you can buy. They are fairly expensive though. The problem is that they are grossly overpowered for deer. I shot one deer this past hunting season with a 150 grain Barnes
x triple shock and it didn't even look like I hit him. My only indication of bullet impact was a falling branch directly behind the deer. He took about three strides and dropped flat. The bullet actually
went through the deer, and over halfway through a tree about a foot thick. I used my kukri to chop the bullet out and kept it. There was a bit more meat damaged by the Barnes bullet than I liked so I switched to Hornady SSTs in 150 grain for Deer. These work wonders and I ended up
getting 4 more deer this season using SSTs. The Barnes x bullets Excel at taking larger game where the bullets energy can be optimized. The bullets are solid copper and when the pre stressed petals fold back after impact they form a razor sharp metal star shape. Twice the original diameter with 100 percent weight retention. I think they ripped through my deer before full expansion
could take place. I know I could tweak this by lowering my powder charge to try and lower the impact velocity, or maybe dropping to a lighter bullet but the SSTs worked so well that I stick to them for deer
and the Barnes bullets for anything larger.
I shot a Moose a while ago between the front quarters with a 168 grain Barnes x and the Moose dropped like a sack of hammers. I have never seen a more effective, clean killing bullet than the Barnes x triple shock for larger game.

These are bullets recovered from game. 168 grain Barnes x triple shock on the right and the Hornady 150 grain SST on the left. Notice the difference in expansion.


[img][IMG]http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8572/dsc00143hm9.th.jpg[/img][/img]
BillLiptak – I have fired the .500 before. I was shooting holes through ammo cans filled with sand (2 deep) with a friend’s S & W . What a MONSTER of a gun. You are right about the glove. I am no wimp when it comes to recoil but I don’t care who you are when it comes to this gun you better hang on to it cause it kicks like a pissed off mule. In Canada I cannot legally own the 4 inch barrel. It must be at least 6. I want this model, but with the 10.5 inch barrel. OH YA!
[img][IMG]http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7748/170299largepe7.th.jpg[/img][/img]
Hacksaw – The bolt action is the most reliable of any gun for sure, and the most accurate but they fetch a much higher price in .22 cal. A semi-isn’t a bad choice but they do jam on occasion when they get gummed up after a day’s firing so if you take it afield be sure to take a field cleaning kit. Most semi auto.22 cal rifles will not shoot subsonic ammo either,(unless you load each one manually) as the lower powered bullets do not have the power to cycle the action . At this time of year if you take the semi-auto out to play keep in mind the action will freeze if you aren’t carful. A bolt action is a lot less likely to freeze in these temps. As well some bolt actions can fire .22 long(rare) .22 LR and .22 short ammo where a semi auto can’t. Where you are left handed you may want to consider a pump action .22 cal (more rugged than a semi auto but with a tubular magazine usually) The tube mag poses a whole new problem in cold weather though. The break down models are nice, I had a crack barrel version which was a 410 bore/.22 survival gun. I sold it because anything that is designed to break down usually fits looser when assembled than a fixed model and accuracy suffers, also, I like to have mine at the ready in case something tasty hops by so I have little use for a break down model. As always YMMV. Just a few more things to consider. Have fun looking and keep us informed on what you decide to buy. The Ruger 10/22 Stainless synthetic in my picture retails for about 300 bucks at Wholesale sports in Edmonton. Drop down there if you get time and get a few different models in your hands to play with. You won’t be disappointed with a Ruger though. It has never failed me and many a critter has been added to my freezer or a stew pot in its honor. It just requires a little extra TLC in this cold.

Swampdonkey – don’t apologize for steering this thread in a different direction. I do it enough to other people I am sure. I love to talk guns as much as survival.

Hi Taurus,

I am eager to try Barnes-X Triple Shock bullets on moose after I finish my supply of .338 cal 250gr Nosler Partitions. Recently though my group has been hunting big game with muzzloaders more because adult validation tags are easier to draw than in the regular rifle season.

Sorry to tell you that Photobucket says you images exceeded the bandwidth, whatever that means, I still shoot a 35mm camera.

Concerning Sub-sonic ammo and it's use in the Marlin Papoose. I have used both Remington and CCI Sub-sonic ammo in this rifle with no problem, this is what I hunt rabbits/grouse, it does not tear them up, is accurate and quiet. I tried CCI CB Longs and they had to be cycled out of the magazine into the chamber by hand one-at-a-time.

Hacksaw, there are some older model rifles that are takedowns (levers, pumps, autos), it would be worth going to a gun show where you can see and handle lots at one place.

The Savage 24's are still made but are quite a bit larger and heaver than the older models. There are many versions of the old wood stocked 24's and I like the .22 rimfire over 20 ga. verson the best. The reason is that I take this gun camping and I would rather use a 20 ga. slug on a bear than a .410. The Savage 24's are discussed on the net here http://www.cylindersmith.com/savage24/index.html

The 24 is a popular gun, good used ones go quickly and command a decent price around here. The Savage 24 breaks-down into 3 pieces very easily like most break action arms (the Camper Companion orginally came with a fitted, padded takedown case).

Your Provincial hunting course process sounds easier and less expensive than ours in Ontario.

Taurus, I agree with you it is just as fun talking hunting as it is survival. Most of my fall/early winter trips combine both.

Later,

Mike

Do the pics work now Swampdonkey ?

Hi Taurus,

Yes the images are working fine now.

Nice expansion on both bullets and appropriate for the game they were recovered from. Were they fired from a 30-06?

What are the loaded rounds in the bottom right corner of the top pic?

That handgun looks like a real cannon, proabaly hit like a ton of bricks on both ends!

Thanks,

Mike

Yes sir. The good old .30-06 is the finest caliber ever designed IMHO. It remains my fav caliber to shoot with and hunt with despite the others I have. I have a .338 as well but wouldn’t shoot a poor Deer with it. I imagine it would smear said deer over a 10 yard strip. The bottom pic is a speed loader of .357 Mag XPT rounds. They are my alternative solution to the aluminum bat discussed on a previous post.

I have fired muzzle loaders but have never hunted with one. It seems like a bit of fun actually. I am still trying to get good with my Browning MYST bow but it is hard to practice this time of year. Maybe I will get some muzzle loading info from you later.
Take care

Hi Taurus,

I put away my bow a few years ago because there were no big game archery seasons in my area (a new deer season opened last year but we do not have many deer). My hunting group got in to muzzleloaders so we could hunt moose in the September rut and whitetail deer in December. The muzzleloaders have been a lot of fun and we now are upgrading from the cheap ones we started with to high quality smokeless powder ones (Savage Bolt Actions). There are a lot of regulations in each jurisdiction as to what is a legal muzzleloader, many will not allow saboted bullets, in-line ignition, smokeless powder, pelleted powder, scopes, etc. You really need to do the research in your hunting location before buying a rifle to be sure it is legal.

PM me anytime if you think I can help you out.

Mike

Great post and great setup. It looks like you have everything covered. What type of rifle are you carrying? I just picked up a Marlin Papoose .22LR Take-Down Rifle that I strap to the bottom of my pack. It's a great survival rifle and quite accurate for a take-down.

Welcome to the forum. You should know about winter gear being from Alaska

Hi Tall One,

Welcome to the ETS forum.

I agree with you about Papoose being a reliable/handy/accurate firearm, I have had good experiences with mine so far.

Use the search function ("Papoose") and there is quite a bit of information on them here.

Mike

hercdoc and swampD . . Thank you for the welcome. I love the site and the information that is shared. Seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people and some great topics.

hercdoc. . Yes, the winters being long and pretty cold have allowed me the opportunity to perfect my winter gear. There have been hits and misses but, there is always plenty of snow and really cold weather to get the kinks worked out.


SwampD.. I love my (Papoose)and have had great luck with it. Usually you never know how accurate a take down rifle will be but, that one has been great and really reliable. Oh yea, it's also fun to shoot. I am off to search for topics about the gun as you mentioned. I am curious what others have to say about it. Regards.. Mike C

Good evening Mike,

The long post we had on the forum concerning take-down .22's can be found here http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=113157&fpart=1

It was after an endorsement from Forum members and lots of web research that lead me to buy mine, I am happly with the purchase.

Later,

Mike