Step 1, THEN step 2...

I got a call from the DW this morning telling me, A) DD1 has two cavities and B) our water taps had gone dry. I immediately launched into telling her that we had plenty of water stored, to use the collected rain water for flushing the toilets, to call the neighbor to confirm their water was out, etc... And as I was talking I could feel the phone in my hand freeze over...

D'oh! I don't know about your wives, but with mine the first step always needs to be saying, "Wow honey, that really sucks. You must be feeling miserable."

Once I remembered to say those words DW snapped out of her funk, thanked me for understanding her needs and started taking care of things again. We're a month away from our 10-year anniversery and I still always forget that step one is not to solve the problem but to give DW a little comfort.

-Blast

What IS it with women and their incessant need to vent and by doing so, get some attention? Geez, every GF I've had, my mom, all the ladies I know...

"Don't you dare solve the problem! I just want you to feel bad for me!"

Drives me absolutely insane. I refuse to change for their twisted need to feel downtrodden. (NOT married, and happy!)

As much as I find this frustrating, I also know it is just the way many women are, although not all. Conversation for them is not so much as simply sharing information, it's about emotions. Fight it at your own peril.

I will note that I do fight it, but not all the time.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

When I actually remember this and put it into practice, more often than not after I express my empathy she says "thanks" and hangs up before I get a chance to solve the problem.

Women are (generally) wired to seek relationship & understanding. Men are (generally) wired to seek solutions & resources. This is a fundamental truth of human beings and puts the lie to the mistaken modern notion that it is (generally) healthy to reverse sex roles.

You can fight it and suffer, or understand it and benefit.

Woah, easy gents. Don't paint with such a broad brush. I was reading the post and thinking - ah good - he's all set, she ought to be well equipped to deal with things now - after all - loss of water (temporarily) is simple enough with a few precautions and he did provide solutions. When I got to the Freeze part - *I* was stunned for a moment - and I'm female. I had to reread it to figure out what her issue might have been. Not every female immediately reacts emotionally and mildly hysterically in the face of an emergency. Some even react rationally. Who knew?? Just sayin'.

Of course - I suppose the trick is to know on which side of the split your SO stands.

I did try to qualify my post by saying "many women" and "although not all." It's not universal, but it is common.

A practical sort of man should to some extent figure this out, and do what he needs to get the job done or have her get the job done. I expect most men that read on forums such as this one are relatively practical.

Exactly! My post wasn't to slam women or just my wife, it was to remind us that we need to understand our teammates. One must know all the strengths and needs of their teammates. Ignoring these needs, even if they don't make sense to you can lead to a worse situation.

-Blast

Blast,

So, are you sleeping out back by the bench or under the tree? At least it is warmer tonight than last week!

kmat

Bathtub in the master bathroom. Hey, at least it's dry!

-Blast

Awww Blast, I feel your pain. Now here's what you do...

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." -- Robert Heinlein

Yep, wife and I just celebrated our 19th last night. Brought home a bouquet of roses in one of her favorite colors (a surprise), and then took her to dinner and got her favorite (seared Ahi Tuna Mignon). Her birthday is tomorrow, so I am sending her to see her daughters in Spokane, then to visit with friends in Denver.

Here's the rules I follow: Give her whatever she asks for. Be willing to spend money on her anytime, for any reason, or for no reason. Make her more important than anything else in the world. Don't criticize her. Let her win any debate (we don't argue about anything, if we disagree, then I give in). Demonstrate my attraction for her anytime we are together. Give her her space.

Roy Rogers and Dale Evans had the right formula. They said that a successful marriage is an 80/20 relationship. You give 80% and get 20% back. Don't look for equity, you will never find it. Also, marriage is a one way path; once you start down it you should never turn back. A lot of folks these days seem to think that it is okay when things don't go your way or they are unhappy with the choice they made to just quit and start over. Well, that sort of thinking doesn't work, and it's persistance is going to wreck this civilization quicker than any terrorist action, if it hasn't already. I can think of damned few reasons where divorce is truly justified, and even then it's because one or both sides would rather quit than work to get past whatever problem exists.

In any case, it may not be that all women act emotionally and mildly hysterically in the face of every emergency. But I can say that, without exception, every woman I ever knew will do it sooner or later, and with enough frequency that a guy is better off just learning and accepting that his first response needs to be to acknowledge the woman's emontional needs before taking one more step, lest he walk into the minefield unaware.

Wise words, You should change your title from poo bah to wise one!

Thank you, Wolf. Then it wasn't just me. "What? What? Maybe he left out something...?"

A friend of mine said she calls *our* reaction to Blast's tale "Oldest Child Syndrome". The oldest child is always put in the position of babysitter/good example, so we just get into the habit of mopping up the blood and putting a bandaid on the owie.

My middle sister faints. My youngest sister whines and waits for someone else to fix it.

Sue

I can concur with that assessment. Being married to the baby of the family, I've come to realize she is higher maintenance than any of her older sisters. Not bad, just more expensive.

I have often listened to some tale of woe about some situation or the other and have paused, then asked, "Do you want me to try to fix this or just listen?"

12 years married...no problems.

Tell her it's a Man Thing.

SEE problem.
KILL problem.
Beat chest....:)

Men's Rules An imagination is a terrible thing to waste!
Whirling Sue

We always hear "the rules" from the female side.
Now here are the rules from the male side.
These are MEN'S rules!
And please note ... these are all numbered "1" ON PURPOSE!

1. Learn to work the toilet seat. You're a big girl.
If it's up, put it down.
We need it up, you need it down.
You don't hear us complaining about you leaving it down.

1. Birthdays, Valentines, and Anniversaries are not considered by us to be opportunities to see if we can find the perfect present . . ..again!

1. Sometimes we are not thinking about you.
Live with it.

1. Sunday = sports. It's like the full moon or the changing of the tides. Let it be.

1. Don't cut your hair. Ever.
Long hair is always more attractive than short hair.
One of the big reasons guys fear getting married is that married women always cut their hair, and by then you're stuck with her.

1. Ask for what you want.
Subtle hints do not work!
Strong hints do not work!
Obvious hints do not work!
Just say it!

1. We don't remember dates. . . .Period!!

1. Most guys own three pairs of shoes -- tops.
What makes you think we'd be any good at choosing which pair, out of thirty, would look good with your dress?

1. Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.

1. Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it.
That's what we do.
Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.

1. A headache that lasts for 17 months is a problem.
See a doctor.

1. Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument.
In fact, all comments become null and void after 7 days.

1. If you won't dress like the Victoria's Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

1. If you think you're fat, you probably are.
Don't ask us.
We've been tricked before!!

1. If something we said can be interpreted two ways, and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one.

1. Let us ogle. We are going to look anyway; it's genetic.

1. You can either ask us to do something or tell us how you want it done.
Not both.
If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.

1. Whenever possible, please say whatever you have to say during commercials.

1. Christopher Columbus did not need directions, and neither do we.

1. The relationship is never going to be like it was the first two months we were going out.
Get over it.
And quit whining to your girlfriends.

1. ALL men see in only 16 colors, like Windows default settings.
Peach, for example, is a fruit, not a color.
Pumpkin is also a fruit.
We have no idea what mauve is.

1. If it itches, it will be scratched.
We do that.

1. We are not mind readers and we never will be.
Our lack of mind-reading ability is not proof of how little we care about you.

1. If we ask what is wrong and you say "nothing," we will act like nothing's wrong.
We know you are lying, but it is just not worth the hassle.

1. If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.

1. Don't ask us what we're thinking about unless you are prepared to discuss such topics as navel lint, the shotgun formation, or monster trucks.

1. Foreign films are best left to foreigners.
(Unless it's Bruce Lee or some war flick where it doesn't really matter what they're saying anyway.)

1. BEER is as exciting for us as handbags are for you.

1. Thank you for reading this;
Yes, I know, I have to sleep on the couch tonight, but did you know, it's like camping.

1. Toilet seats. Nothing is funnier than a sleepy guy lifing both the lid AND the seat and sitting down on the cold porcelain.

1. Long hair. Women who have to take care of a man don't have time to take care of long hair. It's one or the other.

1. Birthdays, anniversaries, Valentine's Day. They are tests to see if you can remember ANYTHING that doesn't involve sports, cars or breasts. You have failed to recognize your own mother!

1. If it was sports just on Sunday, we wouldn't mind. It's all those sports on the other days that follow it.

1. Sometimes we're not thinking about you, either. Or listening. It's an act. We're just better at it than you are.

1. Anything you said 7 days ago is null and void? You don't even remember what you said 7 minutes ago!

1. Christopher Columbus was looking for India when he ran into San Salvador... on the third try.

1. You can recognize 16 colors???? WOW! We thought it was six, tops!

1. How can navel lint be that interesting?

1. All those questions we ask are just tests. You current score is -586,925.

Sue (just couldn't resist!)

Where it concerns my wife, I have only one #1 rule to follow:

1. She's the most important thing in my life, the highest achievement I can ever attain, the closest I will ever come to heaven on earth. When she's not with me it's like losing my arms and legs, only more painful and debilitating. Making her happy brings me the greatest joy I can hope for. I need to think and act accordingly.

Marriage was never intended as a trial offer. Somehow our society has allowed it to be considered as such. This isn't a religious argument, but a question of character and integrity, for if you don't get this committment right, how can you be trusted to live up to any of lesser significance?

When I find out someone's been through a divorce, my opinion of them drops. Either they exercise extremely poor judgment, or their word can't be trusted, or they are vile deviants who are incapable of caring for anyone or anything, or a combination thereof. There is no circumstance imaginable that doesn't fit into one of those three categories.

Read Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars. All the listening to problems rather than fixing problems starts to make sense. It's just biology.

Ben has a real point IMHO. I've been happily married for 25 years and the other 10 haven't been too bad. (I can write that here 'cause my DW will never see it, she hates that joke.) But it does represent what happens in real life. Not every marriage is hugs and kisses every single day, maybe not any if people are truthful. You have to be willing and able to survive the bad times, the mediocre times and fun times to make a marriage last. And that takes committment to your spouse, to the kids, to the institution of marriage. It ain't for the faint hearted. The benefit is that when TSHTF as in when your parents die, or the job goes south or your kid calls to tell you she just spent a week in a hospital in Fiji, you have a partner who backs you up and vice versa. But you don't get to that point easily, it takes a lot of hard work and love and tolerance. (That sound you just heard was me falling off the soapbox and into the pile of laundry I've go to do.)

Back to the question of the topic, I'd suggest using a version of STOP when facing Blast's situation:

S=Stop and listen to what she means, not what she's saying.
T=Take a minute to think before opening your mouth, like a bullet leaving a muzzle, ain't no way to recall something stupid said.
O=offer to do what she wants regardless of whether it's what you think should be done (you can always fix it your way later).
P=Practice patience at all times, the hug you get at the end of the day is worth the wait.

My divorce was from my poor judgement--and I've owned up to that. Now, my ex and I are better friends than we ever were, share responsibilities for our ten year old daughter, and generally are the model for "if you have to divorce, this is the way it should be".

I didn't want to get divorced and was willing to work on every aspect of our marriage to make it work for both of us. She didn't feel the same way.

All I can say is, guys: don't marry your trophy (a lot younger than you) wife too early

Sorry, but if in the example you gave you had exercised better judgement before getting hitched, then the outcome would not have happened. The whys and wherefores won't change that fact.

This is not to say marriage is absolute. Some people will get divorced due to situations such as the one you cite. If the cheating spouse didn't take her committment serious enough to remain faithful and committed to the relationship, then I would say you chose poorly in a matter of the highest importance, and I would be reluctant to place trust in you for certain things. It wouldn't mean that you are worthless to me, likely it would never be an issue. For really critical matters, though, I'd be looking for a 2nd opinion.

I am glad to hear you are happily married, and my greatest hope for you is that it will only improve.

I guess growing up with a mom who's married and divorced 5 times now has me convinced there are certain constants regarding the human equation.

Were my wife to run off and leave me I would feel the same about myself.

If my wife was regretful about cheating on me and wanted to reconcile, I would take her back. I would not file for divorce if she left. That's just me. I doubt she'd come back to me, though. She'd have to sleep with one eye open the rest of her life I suspect.

Well, true, perhaps in my efforts to express the priority on making a thorough evaluation before making the comittment so that the expectation that dissolution or that either side would consider an alternative as a possibility is as low as practically possible (after all, no one can read the mind of another and truly know their intent), I have overly emphasized the consequence of making a making such a decision and entering into such an arrangment lightly.

There are varying degrees to which my impression of a person's character would diminish, depending on whether it was a poor judgement call up front by picking a bad partner being something that a person could overcome in time, with suitable demonstration that such judgement errors are not serial, vs. someone who was demonstrably insincere to their initial committment and chose to move on, in which case I would say their character flaw is fairly unredeemable.

For instance, to use your example, if I am to see a doctor, I would not ask if he's been divorced, basing my first impression on more moderate criteria as would be germaine to that sort of situation. Now if it should come up that he has in fact been divorced, then depending on what the nature of the separation might be I may or may not decide that his situation warrants seeking someone else's services. This is not to say he isn't well qualified to treat me. In fact, he may be the best doctor in the world, but as a human being he will be lacking in certain qualities I find crucial for me to place my trust in his care for. His expertise is not the thing in question, merely that he has demonstrated he may not utilize the knowledge he possesses to my advantage.

Most of life's mistakes are not important enough or carry the weight that would warrant such adamant scrutiny. My point is, marriage ought to be taken that seriously. If it were by more people, we wouldn't have nearly the number of social problems we have now. I don't know if that is old school or just the product of being forced to experience it over and over.

Having been divorced is not the sole criteria by which I would judge a person, just one of the most important ones. How would you judge a person who allowed their child to be abused, or committed manslaughter, vs a convicted pedophile or serial killer? There are varying degrees of judgement for each category, depending on intent and culpability. From a social perspective, I consider divorce, child abuse, and murder to be about as devastating with respect to like severity.

OK, while were on the topic of being "equipped for a relationship" I guess I can share another couple of things in our EDMK (every day marriage kit), we've sen a lot of couples come and go since we got married in 1996, so at this point, I only feel qualified to talk to the unmarried.

In no particular order....

My wife asks me, "Do you want to have dinner at my Mother's house?" and I often reply, "I don't care."

And that answer makes my wife very, very happy.

Why?

For me, "I don't care" means exactly, literally and without retroactive equivocation, "I don't care." It does not mean, "I think you want me to go, but I don't really want to, so I'll say I don't care, so I don't have to say no, but I hope you'll say you don't really want to go."

It means that given a choice of dinner at moms or sitting on the couch, either of these choices will leave me in the same basic mental state. And my wife knows that if I DO care, I'll say it:

Her: "Do you want to have dinner at my Mother's house?"
Me: "No, I'd rather stay home."
Her: "OK, well I'm heading over with the kids, I'll tell them you were beat from work."
Me: "Thanks."

And that's it. It's about not mindreading everything and simply accepting.

Sweet!

Life is usually much better when we communicate with understanding.

Kudos.

Step 1, then Step 2. Sage advice. Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes I forget.

And on a related note....

http://men.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6014915&GT1=10822