PSK medicine

hi every1. a few days ago i burnt my hand superficialy. it stung a bit so i put it in sum ice water, but 30 minutes later the pain hit me like a sledgehammer when i took my hand out. the pain was nonexsistant when my hand was in the water, but i couldn't sleep with it in a bowl. my dad (a docter) gave me some 'Valaron' ("Tilidine" is the generic). it knocked me out for a good 12 hr with no pain wen i woke up. i wanted to include it in my psk (it works too [censored] well not to), but i need a prescription, and my dad says not a chance as its extremly potent:( Any1 agree with a small, but potent analgesic/seditive in a psk? i took 16 drops, and a SMALL vial would administer a few potent doses.

Woft,<br><br>why would you like something in your PSK that would knock you out? You need to use all your senses when "surviving". I would agree on the mild pain killer but nothing as serious as prescription drugs. I would take a general antibiotic with me when going climbing or hiking for 4 weeks but nothing for the short term. Of course they were times in the past when I wish I had a powerful pain killer with me but at the end because I didn't, pain was my guidline how far I can push myself. If you suck it up, your body will produce enough pain killers to smooth the pain and part that hurts will just become numb but if you push to hard it will come back and let you know to take it easy.<br><br>Example:<br>I was doing speed hikes in the Deleware Water Gap area and I met a pair of doctors who hiked with their friends. In their car they had a small pharmacy. One of the girls in their group did something to her knee so the doctors trying to be helpfull gave her a pain killer shot and a steroid injection. Girl feeling a miracle cure hiked the mountain faster than anyone, 4 weeks later she had a reconstructive surgery on her knee and than another one and another one.<br><br>Matt

Just my opinion, but I don't think an altoids size PSK is the place for ANY firstaid supplies or medication. Let's see if this stirs up a health discussion:<br><br>1) there is no antiseptic worth carrying if you don't have potable water to irrigate a wound. If there is sufficient potable water, you most likely can pass on the antiseptic.<br><br>2) a piece of duct tape or electrician's tape (which seems standard on all the PSKs we talk about in this forum) is better than a bandaid any time.<br><br>3) for serious pain, (i.e., greater than the ambient pain of being lost and needing to survive!) you can't carry enough of anything worthwhile to SAFELY medicate that pain, in a PSK. I've even carried morphine sulphate in a PSK. Waste of space! If the trauma needed big pain relief, it needed a real medical kit. And it needed injectable analgesics.<br><br>4) similar opinion regarding antibiotics. Even Z-pak or Cipro. Wait 'till you're rescued to start antibiotics. I doubt that in the most-likely survival scenario of less than 3-4days you'll get an incapacitating infection.. unless a terrifically dirty wound, that your PSK antibiotics would in fact help you with! If you have to have antibiotics, they belong in a medical kit.<br><br>What do others think?

A PSK is no place for first aid supplies. Your ability to survive will not be affected by a bandaid or a trace of betadine. Likewise, you can't carry a meaningful supply of medication. Drugs should be kept at a controlled temperature and the temperatures we expose ourselves to will render many drugs ineffective.<br>Just an opinion.

I accept your wisdom, but I think there are some exceptions.<br><br>I carry 10 Cipro in my PSK not necessarily to stop a deadly infection after I am stranded in the wilderness, but to buy me and my wife 2.5 days should a terrorist attack by anthrax occur. This is a critical time where we can clear the area and wait for civil unrest to stop. It is also my wife's preferred means to combat certain feminine issues... Carrying Cipro is a bit ludicrus to many, but no more so that buying potassium iodide or indeed carrying a concealed weapon.<br><br>I carry 15ml betadine in my PSK as an alternate water purifier and to make an emergency wound irrigation wash as recommended in my WFR class taught by Wilderness Medical Associates. I carry a few fabric bandaids in my PSK which are used day to day to cover minor cuts, but I find them invaluable for covering blisters (along with duct tape). Blisters are a highly underrated trigger in back country emergencies. <br><br>Am I missing something?<br>

While I agree that a small altoids sized PSK has little space for medical supplies, if you can carry some it would be good.<br>Antibiotics - I personally carry cipro 500 x 5. I wouldn't use it unless I'm really desperate and more than a week has gone by without being rescued and the wound I have is becoming more and more infected despite irrigation and cleaning with water. I don't carry antibiotic ointment as it does little to help prevent wound infection. Wound irrigation and drainage are more important. And while cipro has moderate effect on staph Aureus on the skin (which causes most skin infections), it has a much broader spectrum on other organisms (you may not just have a skin infection - think pneumonia....) and is simple to dose and pack in a PSK (unlike cephalexin).<br><br>Analgesia - I carry only plain paracetamol. While severe injuries require more urgent medical attention and better supplies, when you're on your own in the wilderness and are having fever and chills from the infected wound, you'll be glad to have anything that can help you improve the situation so you can tend to the signal fire or lookout for SAR. Pain relief from paracetamol is moderate at best but something is better than nothing.<br><br>Antihistamine - to reduce the effects of any allergic reaction you may suffer from touching / tasting that plant which you thought was edible. While you may argue that if an oral antihistamine can treat the symptoms, its not serious anyway, you may be right. All the same that dose of antihistamine may just stave off a more severe reaction.<br><br>Lomotil - diphenoxylate /atropine - an antidiarrhoeal and antispasmodic. Again to treat any gastrointestinal problem which you may get from drinking that water or half cooked pigeon / squirrel. Any dehydration from diarrhoea in a survival situation is a potentially lethal especially if water is not abundant. Again, abodminal spasms which prevent you from tending that signal fire or look out for SAR could be avoided if you had some of these.<br><br>Band-aids - I agree that some clean rags and duct tape work better if you are cut and bleeding. I carry some mainly for blisters and such. Other wounds are likely to be bigger and band aids would be of no use.<br><br>Anything as strong as Valeron definitely has no place in my kit. I'll have a hard time trying to explain to the powers that be what it's doing in my kit (it has strong potential for abuse by addicts), and I'm a doctor!! All in all, I would also bring along my comprehensive medical kit on the outdoor activities / camps just to be on the safe side!!<br><br>Just my few singapore cents.....<br><br>

Our past posts led me to an in progress reorganization of my dedicated medical tin. The adage " an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure" may be applicable. I now carry chapstick, moleskin, insect repellant and nail clippers. Poor hygiene can be a precurser to poor health. I also want to look better than Tom Hanks when rescued ;O)

Boertjie, in a genuine survival situation a pain killer strong enough to knock you out can become a literal killer ie you may not wake up. All very well having it with you but still lends itself to abuse. If all you want is instant pain relief from burns ask the doctor for a spray can of lidocaine skin anasthetic spray. Always remember that pain is your bodys way of telling you that it has been injured and removing the pain can result in more damage to the injured part. Work on increasing your pain threshold.<br>Regards

O.K. That was a BIG mistake <<blush>>. i'm still new at this, and can only learn from my mistakes. the shame, the shame...

I must agree with all of your choices. I also carry asprin and naproxen, a decongestant and cough suppressant. Pete

If I survive a crash with a broken arm and have to walk out with it for 3 days is it wrong to have a couple of vicodin on hand to keep the pain from clouding my brain?<br><br>As I have never broken a bone, nor ever taken any of the vicodin I carry, is this a misconception on my part? It seems to be a small, lightweight item that can save me from LOTS of grief and/or pain.<br><br>Please let me know if I am disillusioned.

I carry some aleve to quell minor pains because mundane things like sprains, strains, headaches, cuts and scrapes cloud judgement. If I need to determine a course of action among many variables, I want to focus.<br>

I've been lurking on this thread... here's my 2 cents:<br><br>If you need anything more potent than a hefty dose of Ibuprofen, you probably have bigger problems than some pain killer will solve. The impairment that comes with even a small amount of codine (let alone more powerful "narcotics") would in itself be dangerous.<br><br>Adversity and need, to a point, lend a higher pain tolerence. Our bodies are pretty darned good at managing these things if we don't let our minds get too much in the way.<br><br>I've never been seriously injured (pure luck). I once walked through awful terrain for 3 days with a green stick fracture of one leg. It really gave me a blinding flash of pain if I did something "wrong" - I adapted pretty quickly... Another time, much more painful. I wrecked a wrist in a fall, eventually losing a carpal bone. It did not prevent me from completing my trek, but I had to learn how to field-dress and quarter an elk with my left hand on-the-fly and it took me about 4 years to fully compensate and heal. Another time I had to decend the last 4-5 km from an extended pack-in trip on my butt, hands, and knees - my knees were toast and I could not walk down slope on them without falling - bad form in that location (aiiiieeee splat!) And so on - point is, if there is need, one can work with non-life-threatening injuries.<br><br>I do NOT have a high pain threshold - ask my dentist.<br><br>Injuries that have nearly incapacitated me: <br><br>1. High Altitude sickeness (AMS; Acute Mountain Sickness - I am prone to that about 1/2 the time for about 12 hours after a rapid elevation gain unless I take a prophylaxis like DiaMox (sp) ). I have functioned through that, but it is awfully debiliating and best left to run its course if you can or evac lower if you cannot (it varies for folks - I am familiar with my malaise)<br><br>2. Cut eyeball - I could have trekked with that if I had to, but only because nothing and everything hurt like the dickens - ouch! Staying or going effected no change and it was (barely) tolerable. When I got to a doc, the pain medication that worked knocked me for a loop. Pain or disfunctional - those were the choices.<br><br>3. Nothing else comes readily to mind... err, I had some fractured neck vertebra once, but I was functional after I got the copper taste out of my mouth. Neck movement went on auto-pilot - as I said, the body manages itself pretty well.<br><br>As I said, I've never been seriously injured so far. Various GI distresses can lay waste to one ASAP (I agree with the Lomotil, BTW), and of course things like malaria attacks from what I've seen. Severe injuries are just that - severe injuries. Except for CNS injuries, most folks seem to be able to drag themselves away from imminent danger and then they need immediate aid from someone else. I've seen the gamut, but not personally experienced any. Pain meds are not the sole answer to things like that.<br><br>IIRC Trusbix's post correctly, I thought he had a very sensible list of meds. However...<br><br>If we're talking the tiny tobacco-tin/candy tin size "PSK", I don't think there is much room for effective enough pain killers that will not critically impair one. I carry a short dose of a couple of OTC meds and that's it - for me, it will get me over the hump in an AMS attack. My personal first aid kit - above and beyond the PSK - has meds in it. For an extended trip, I carry an extended first aid and medication capability that is a compromise between what I can afford to carry, what the risks are, and my knowledge and abilities. I would never attempt to make that up in a PSK-size kit - it's just not going to yield anything really useful in that volume, IMHO.<br><br>Sooo... perhaps we can turn the conversation to, say, three stages of kit: 0, 1, and 2 - with zero being the PSK, 1 being a personal first aid kit, and 2 being (for lack of a better term) a "group leader kit". (Or for Doug - a small aircraft kit <grin>).<br><br>Like I said, just my 2 cents worth...<br><br>Regards to all,<br><br>Tom

I have had two recent injuries which Itreated with my personal FAK - one was a sprained ankle - the result of a leader fall, and the other was a broken (actually crushed)big toe - to be expected when your toe winds up beneath a cargo box while unloading cargo. In neither case did I use any pain killer - I was somewhat surprised at how little the broken toe hurt, as a matter of fact. In the climbing injury, a strong pain killer might well have impaired my ability to get off the climb and down to the ER - a good rigid splint gave me significant relief in that case.<br><br>I have seen a few cases with victims with FXs 24 to 48 hours old with no treatment, not even decent splinting, and in none of those situations was pain a concern.<br><br>Of course, pain does exist in many of these situations, but I would rather leave the strong stuff to a knowledgable medical team which can assume responsibility for care and transportation.<br><br>It would seem to me that a FAK should contain materials that reflect the training and medical knowledge of its owner - that means asprin, tops, for most of us.

I'd say I agree with you about 1000%.

I have had 2 significant injuries. Coincidentally both were on hunting trips. At the end of one hunt, I fell breaking my minor (left) hand and sustaining 5 comminuted fractures in my left foot. The injuries were painful, but not enough to stop me from drivinng several hundred miles home. I didn't even go to the ER for about 12 hours (well after I got home). Overall those fractures were not that painful.<br><br>In the other case, I sustained a Grade III sprain of my left ankle about 1/2 way through an outstanding dove shoot. A hunting buddy helped position my body. An hour later, after getting my limit, he helped me limp back to my vehicle. That injury later proved to be excruciatingly painful.<br><br>Significant pain in the outdoors may be a useful measure of what you can do & how you should best do it. A powerful analgesic could mask the seriousness of the injury & mislead you as to how you should comport yourself thereafter.<br><br>John

I am thinking of the absolute worst case scenarios and/ or I am just stuck in the wilderness for a long time. A strong Analgelsic like Vicodin will help with a enormous amount of pain. <br><br>I ask the question, couldn't I better focus on purifying water if my broken toe didn't hurt.<br><br>I have had serious skin and respitory infections before. A weeks dose of Cipro could possible extend my life for a week should it take that long for rescue.<br><br>I could walk a lot faster despite injuries if my broken arm didn't hurt so much.<br><br>Above and beyond all is the level of comfort I get from the items in my PSK. Sure I could do without food, I could do without water and shelter, and fire, etc. The fact is these medications I carry are considered a bonus to the health, knowledge and experience I already have.<br><br>I give Kudos to all who have survived situations without pain. But wouldn't you have been more comfortable without the pain?

I carry vicadin, ibuprofin, benedryl, multi vitamins and an herb that helps to keep the immune system strong in case of infection, but don't carry any antibiotics. I try to stay away from them so that I don't build up a resistence to their ability to help me heal when I really need them. I do carry good topicals with me to help guard against infections in cuts and scrapes and I carry a small tube of Diporlene AF for any dermatological problems that might occur while in the bush.