Another family not prepared is saved

Here is a good ending to a story that could have been much worse:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071220/ap_on_re_us/missing_family

Anyone who has ever believed that we're nuts to EDC gear like we do needs to join that family. For their sake I'm glad, as anyone would be, that they were found. It's amazing they went out into winter weather into the woods so unprepared.

Survival forum members rock!

I'm happy that they're all alive and unharmed.

After stories like these, I wish there were pictures of the places that the family sheltered, etc. Of course the priority is to get the people to safety, and not lose another person... It just makes curious...

In any case, he had a saw. What a difference something as simple as a lighter may have made. And a flashlight might have been nice. Et-cetera

From thoughts like that your mind starts going over the situation, or at least mine does...

The hazy dream lines warp the picture.
Doodle oodle doo
Doodle oodle doo

My first thought was that a GPS - especially one that had an electronic compass so it would point to where they want to go - would have saved them all the trouble and gotten them back to their truck (IF they'd have saved a waypoint at the truck). . .

But then I started thinking that they may still have gotten stuck in the truck because of the snow.

I keep coming back to the amazing PLB technology. Yes, it is kind of expensive, but it saves lives!

Ken K.

We can all probably list the things he did wrong. But it still goes to show that mental attitude is vital. He kept everyone's spirits up, didn't let the kids know he was scared, and used what he did have (common sense) to make the best of a bad situation.

The article says they sheltered in a culvert, but this morning there was a TV interview with the oldest boy, who talked about how the kids huddled under a tree whild the father cut branches and basically built a shelter around them.

First it's an EDC knife, then a lighter, then a GPS, next thing you know one of these guys will start carrying a backpack with equipment to build a shelter even though he doesn't plan to stay overnight. THEN he starts carrying a piece of gear he hopes to never use, he joins a forum much like this one and shakes his head when he reads about other clueless people getting stuck in a wilderness area.

I've never been stuck in the snow -- well okay, once twice with my Dad when I was a kid, but that's when I learned about limitations. I'll bet these kids are going through the shoulda, woulda, coulda thought process -- life lessons. Learning from your own mistakes is as good or better than learning from others, if you survive. These guys all made it -- class dismissed.

They can thank their lucky stars (and whomever else they might like to) that they survived.

<rant on>

I personally think that the father should be facing child welfare officals right now explaing why he put his children in such danger because of his poor planning skills.
Knowing that he is taking his children into the forest in winter and having absolutely no survival tools,very little knowledge of survival, food or water with him Just In Case is a criminal act in my mind.
He's a damned lucky fool in my book.
<rant off>

It is good to hear that everyone is safe.

The question I have from reading the article: Is it legal to go up into the mountains and harvest a Christmas tree anywhere in CA? Where were they that this was OK to do in the first place?

i live in ca and that was of my first thoughts when this event began.

from the chico, ca paper at:

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_7765652

"Sams (childrens' mother) said Dominguez and the three siblings drove up after church on Sunday to cut a Christmas tree. They already had a tree permit and only planned to stay a short while. The snowstorm had not yet hit the area."

The problem is that the dad "planned" as much as any normal person and CPS would chalk ithis event up to an act of God, not poor planning. CPS (child protective services) probably would give the dad a medal since none of the kids died.

I've had to deal with child welfare officals a lot due to our adoptions. Saying anything more about them would enter political rant mode, so I'll stop now.

-Blast

Shouldda, Couldda, Wouldda... all the planning doesn't do you any good if you "don't bring it with you". I am using this as a prime example of "you should take it (Ten Essentials) with you whenever you go into the woods" for my Scouts. Thankfully this ended happily, when it could have easily ended up otherwise.

Well they survived. What was it three days with heavy snow? Thats pretty good for someone with no planning or preparation.

I think this is an excellent and two-fold lesson: First poor planning will nail you, maybe not every time but when it does get you it gets you hard; second they would have been much more comfortable if they'd had even minimal gear, but their survival didn't depend on it. The father (and oldest son, he's 18 therefore old enough to shoulder adult responsibility) messed up. They should have let mom know exactly where they were going. Dad should have made sure everyone had good snow boots and warm clothing. Matches or stove would have made them down right comfortable. But they survived and did a lot right once the situation had gone south. They found shelter. They set up a signal (evergreen branches on snow is in many of the survival manuals). They kept feet warm and prevented frostbite.

So the lesson for the ruck of unprepared people is plan better and carry some kit. The lesson for those of us who read this forum is don't rely too much on equipment. Absolutely carry it , but remember you can survive with out it.

First post in several months for me, have been busy - but heard this story on the radio and was interested in checking this board's opinion.

You know, in reading this article I think they did fairly well, all things considered. I mean basically if you look at it they left the car to look for a tree and got lost in the woods - which many of you should know is NOT had to do. Unless you check behind you from time to time, it's downright impossible to navigate in a pine forest. EVERYTHING looks the same.

So yeah, even if he had a kit in the car, he probably would have left it because he was 'simply' getting a tree. Sure, the lesson is carry it with him but it's a simple, though potentially deadly, mistake. I am glad to see that given the circumstances they had the foresight to build a shelter, stamp out a 'help' in the snow filled with sticks to offset the color of the terrain, and that he was able to keep his kids emotionally stable (that alone speaks volumes) enough to complete the journey into awareness in one piece.

Let's not forget that even the most unlikely circumstances can catch even the most vigilant off guard - it's how we react when those circumstances occur that's important.

Just my .0002 cents

The instinct to go towards man-made structures (culvert vs. tree) could have cost these people their lives. I'll wager they spent a more comfortable night under the tree with boughs to sit on then in the metal culvert with water coursing through the bottom.

That's why practicing with what God gives us in nature is so important, and so incredibly neglected by 99% of people.

I think that article might not be entirely accurate. Every other report I've heard indicates they made a lean-to shelter out of tree limbs.

Here's an example:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/20/family.found/index.html

I also like the fact they were smart enough to remove socks and put their feet inside each others shirts to keep from getting frostbite.

I completely agree they could have had better training; you can always claim that though. My point is from a psychological perspective, they held together ALOT better than most of the people you end up reading about in the obituaries. They survived 72 hours in the cold, damp weather with relatively few injuries and zero fatalities. Not bad for a bunch of uneducated city-folk.

Then again, reading the same article I posted even though it states a lean-to made of branches you also see "singing her heart out in the tunnel".. I guess it's a bit ambigious as to what they were using for shelter. They also might have moved around too.

Yeah, somehow I don't think that "lax preparation due to living in modern America" is something the CPS folks can put in their records. Not to say that I condone the family's lack of prep, but whether or not we think it's criminal or not...the law hasn't caught up to us yet. It sounds like a gray area...child endangerment vs. poor judgment...

Of course I go toward the other extreme...if I'm going to the store for some milk nog and don't have a Heatsheet and whistle within arm's reach (in addition to regular EDC) then I freak out! What's to say that a building won't collapse on top of my car, trapping me in sub zero temperatures on the way to the store?

I've gotta go...late for my therapist appointment...

The following is what I gleened from the story:

1. The unexpected can can happen at any time.

This is evidenced by the simple act of going into a forest to collect a Christmas tree and getting lost.

2. The mind is the best survival tool you can have.

The Dad only had the clothes on his back and a saw. Yet, he built a crude shelter the first night and built a distress signal from available materials that eventually lead to their rescue. Recognized health hazards and developed a way to treat them with what he had.

3. Attitude is everything.

Kept his kids alert and interactive with his positive attitude despite the gravity of the situation.

I could play the "shouda-woulda-coulda" game and try to second guess their precise situation but the bottom line is they survived with minimal injuries from a potential deadly situation. For that, they should be commended.

From one article I read (don't have the site), the first night the father build a shelter at the base of a pine tree, but it was still quite cold. The next day, they tried to find the truck, but failed (they were 1.5 miles from it), and saw the culvert. Actually, this was not a bad idea. If the snow was building up fast, I can see someone worrying about snow collapsing a shelter. And if the temperature is freezing, you might not have much water running through the culvert.

But I still think that a fire at one end, reflected into the culvert, and the other stuffed with pine boughs wouldn't have made a bad shelter. Too bad they couldn't build a fire.

The 18-yr-old knew about camping and some survival, so I'll be he and Dad tossed a few options back and forth.

With what they had, they didn't do so badly. Firemaking equipment and a few Heatsheets would have been a great improvement. If they go looking for a Christmas tree next year, I wonder if they will be carrying a few extras?

Sue

I was also under the impression that it was the distress signal that caught the attention of rescuers. But apparently it was the father running around that got their attention.



http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/20/family.found/index.html

Ben East was a writer for Outdoor Life from the '40s to the '70s and reported on many survival stories. One of his favorite maxims was, "Never step off a road or a marked trail unless you're ready to spend the night in the woods."

Saw an intrview tonight on the news. Daughter said next year the tree was going to be plastic.

They were even luckier. From what I heard on the news was the flight that spotted them was going to be the last flight.

Okay, this brings up and interesting question...when do you start walking out? James Kim decided to walk out after several days and it killed him but his family stayed put and was later saved (although wikipedia says they were seen by a helicopter pilot while walking down a remote road). While this family was rescued by the last flight since weather was worsening. How long do you sit in the snow cave wondering whether anyone is coming? A week, two? Should you walk out while you're still strong or wait until your body has used up much of its reserves?

For people who've done SAR work, when are search efforts normally called off?

Sounds like a confession to me.

+1 on that.

I don't expect normal people to be prepared like us. I don't even expect us to always be as prepared as we'd like- we all have done the "I'm just going a mile to get milk" or "it's only a hundred yards off the road to get to those crab apple trees" and left everything but what is in our pockets behind.

In some ways they were better prepared than most of us are with our EDCs- they had a good saw. The difference between planning and luck sometimes is just do you make a habit of it?

I don't think the dad and the oldest son deserve medals, but they do deserve credit- everyone survived, even if the one daughter did get some frost bite. They got a shelter up. They stayed warm, even if it meant doing things that might seem counter intuitive to Joe Average. And he moved when he needed, rather than taking time to put his shoes on first.

In some ways, that they pulled it off without being like us is more worthy of merit than if we did it with our EDC.

Although it does nicely illustrate my point about a KISS pocket kit built around shelter for people who aren't as heavily trained.

Why is he driving in areas with snow in the first place like that? Either prepare to get stuck, don't go there, or turn back as soon as a key assumption fails (snow!). It appears he checked the weather forecast, saw no prediction of snow, and then started - and didn't turn back when the weather forecast proved wrong, even though a pick-up is not the best snow vehicle around...

Sure he could have hauled a lot of gear along to handle being stuck for days with the kids, but most people don't have that kit and can't afford it. A better answer might be, avoid that situation, don't drive a pick-up into snowy areas, turn back when weather is so much worse than forecast. And perhaps just take along the older boy, so you can perhaps take along a couple of thick blankets, etc.

One suspects that when snow was first seen on the road his comment may have been "hmm, snow, better hurry" not "Uh oh, I've got a truck full of kids & can't handle snow, time to head back, *now*".

I'm not sure the lesson here is so much prepare to spend the night in the woods as it is to know the limits of what you prepared to handle and turn back rather than go further. Dealing with a multitude of possibilities is expensive, but *not having to deal with them in the first place* is often a practical alternative.

I dunno, I don't like passing judgement on such things. Were it me, I would've either planned to go up earlier, got more suitable transportation for those conditions, or bought a tree downtown. It seems like the father was stupid, lazy, cheap, and a little too egotistic. That he risked such an act with children without a back-up plan is reprehensible. I would encourage parents to take their kids into tough situations, but with the understanding that if things don't go as expected, then there should be an out; some alternative to recover the situation effectively. What he did is incompetent and he ought to be treated as such, not rewarded for being lucky.

My KISS kit is centered on navigation as most cases (just like this one) start with getting lost/turned around and "where the hell are we" sets in. A compass and map (assuming you know how to use that lost art), or a mapping GPS, or a compass, map and any GPS.

A non-mapping Garmin Geko can hold a whole bunch of waypoints and the first one you set before walking should be where your car is parked. Then mark points on the trail or just leave it on and it will mark your path. Getting lost is very easy, but not getting lost isn't that difficult.

My walking kit (Camelbak Rim Runner) has all I need to make an expedient shelter and boil water. Tea, chicken soup -- all the comforts of home. . .okay, not all, but enough for an unexpected overnight.

As for my "confession", I don't have a PLB yet, looking seriously at the SPoT, but will probably wait for Doug's final assessment and maybe v2.0.

Another thought is that he was being a Dad and trying to bring back memories of cutting his own tree and turned it into a family thing. Not necessarily cheap, but very traditional. I remember doing the same thing with my Dad in the late 50's. After that we moved on to live trees and we planted them. . . most are quite tall now.

... but it usually happens when you least expect it

If I read the news threads correctly, I believe the kids were under dressed for the weather to be going out in the first place? I beleive the father wrapped pieces of his clothing around a daughter's feet. Where was the footwear for December?

And the only reason he had a saw was to cut a tree down, not for survival purposes. He did right by building a rough shelter, but I question whether it was adequate for all of them.

And because the unexpected can happen at any time, and anywhere: my EDC backpack includes my cell phone, enough food for 2 days, at least 1 litre of water, water purfication, FAK, PSK, FSK, knife,my daily medications and glucose testing supplies. And my wife is glad that I invest in this equipment.

companion thread
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=116502#Post116502