Hybrid batteries by Rayovac

Just learned about these. Having been frustrated with rechargables
these sound pretty good. Has there been a thread on these before?

http://www.amazon.com/Rayovac-Hybrid-Battery-NiMH-2000/dp/B000LPTDQQ

Don't know about that particulair brand and model. But i have been using NiMH with low self discharge for since they got out.

The one's i use are Sanyo Eneloop and GP Rechyco. They have pretty much replaced all AA and AAA battery i have. I use them everywhere.

What's that?

Regarding the Eneloop "miracle". IMHO, it looks like a consumer grade invention (e.g. for lazy and impatient). It's nice for long term storage probably (however, the alkalines shelf life is still better). But you sacrifice the capacity to have such a benefit (they have only 2000 mAh, you can get 2700 mAh and that's quite a noticeable difference. I've got 4 3800 mAh nonames, but didn't tested them yet, could be a hoax actually).

well it's not just about capacity. Really high capacity (2700) have very hihg discharge rate, after about 10 cycles. Which means they emty them selfs in a week or two. Making them useless in most devices, unless you want to charge them every week. 3800 mah is just a plain hoax.

A low self discharge battery is suitable for devices that uses less power. I use them in flashlights, mine camera (i don't make that many pictures at once), etc. I wouldn't call them battery's for lazy people. They are way more practical in many everyday devices that uses less lower.

Just get the right battery for a particulair use. I don't need ultra high capacity. 2000 mah is good enough for me, because i never drain battery's at once.

You are absolutely right. You do sacrifice some Amp-hour capacity when you choose a battery with a low self-discharge. This is because the low self-discharge property is created by using a much thicker dielectric inside compared to normal NiMH cell. That thicker dielectric, while keeping the stored electric charge from leaking across and balancing out, takes up some room normally used for the charge holding material, causing a slightly lower capacity.

It’s just a matter of weighing the properties of both against each other. Normal NiMH batteries will hold ~2700 mAh, but can empty themselves in a month. Low self-discharge NiMH batteries only hold ~2000 mAh, but can keep that charge solid for about a year.

Personally, I find the advantage of being able to store several thousand mAh of NiMH batteries that I know are still charged up trumps only having ~2700 mAh at one time because you need to wait for your next battery to charge before you get more. That is a simplified demonstration, of course, because you can orchestrate your charging schedule to allow you to almost always have fully charged normal NiMH batteries, but that requires a lot more effort, and one of the premises of this forum is that the opportunities where batteries are a lifesaver doesn’t always work with our schedules.

These 'hybrid' batteries ARE Nickel Metal Hydride batteries...they're just low self-discharge batteries like the new Duracell precharged or Panasonic Enveloop. Nothing new or special...price isn't bad I've found though.

I switched all my gear to Sanyo Eneloop about a year ago. The shelf life is almost what an alkaline is and the capacity is close too. Sure there are higher capacity NiMH out there but they get that higher capacity by sacrificing reliability. My own testing shows that the low self discharge cells work as well as alkaline so I'm happy to finally find a battery that actually works as it should.

I have a very good charger and run my batteries on a very strict schedule of top up charges even if I don't use them. The charger is very intelligent and won't overcharge them. By my math I'd have to charge them if I let them sit and they self-discharged anyhow. Most NiMH are good for about 500 FULL charges so this doesn't really reduce their overall life...especially since I switched to all LED lights.

The next time one or two won't recharge, I'm definitely going to get the low self-discharge type...but I'll hold out a while and get them wholesale and not retail...way way cheaper from places like Thomas Distributing.

Oh. And speaking of chargers I put together a 'power kit' a while back to cater to my gadget fetish. An Energizer Duo USB charger, a Ziplinq X2 USB power adapter, Some custom USB charge cables, an Energizer AA cell phone charger (modified to output to a USB port), and a 12V all weather folding solar panel. I can charge my phone, AAs or AAAs off of a lighter socket (12v or 24v), from a wall outlet, or from the rays of the sun. Sounds like time to post about another one of my kits

Actually, the higher value NiMH rechargeables rarely get the maximum charge value. A typical 2700 mAh cell may typically get only a 2500 mAh charge. A lot depends on the quality of the charger and the optimum recharge current/time profile for the cell. A poor quality charger on a 1hr charge may only give the 2700 mAH cell around 2200mHA charge. A 30 min charger may only give 1800 mAH. The Eneloops charge recorded on my charger were freakily accurate at 2000 mAH plus or minus 5 or 10 mAH.

I've found that Eneloop cells are currently the best on the market, outperforming even the higher rated cells when taking everything into account. Only when using other high quality and higher capacity cells such as Duracell, Ansmman, Uniross or Sanyo 2700 Industrial cells hot of the charger in high drain applications such as digital cameras etc will the Eneloops be bettered. For use in flashlights and GPS applications etc the Eneloops are excellent and will perform better than even top quality single use alkalines.

I've also tried cheaper NiMH cells, an example would be a cheap 2500 mAh no name, it would only charge to 1600 mAh. I suspect your 3800 mAh cells would not be able to hold anything more than 2000 mAH.

That's actually a good point. If you can, buy a charger that can test the battery. I have one of the top LaCrosse models which will (optionally) fully charge a battery, then discharge it to measure it's capacity, then charge it again.

It's how I test older cells which I suspect are near the end of their life before they fail me when I need them most. I also throw new batteries on this cycle to see how accurately they're labeled.

Sanyo is usually considered the best NiMH and NiCd battery maker. Eneloop is made by Sanyo. I too find the Sanyo cells are usually very near their rated capacity even at a 0.2C discharge rate.

The main problem with Alkaline batteries is that they can leak. I don't know how many $$$ devices I have had ruined by Alkaline batteries 1/100 the value of the device before I gave up and stopped using Alkelines altogether.

The other problem is that Alkaline batteries have a lower effective capacity than NiMH in all but the lowest-discharge applications. Even Eneloop has a higher capacity if the discharge rate is above 200 mA or so.

I now use Eneloop AA and AAA in anything that gets used at all, and Lithium AA and AAA for emergency or backup (ie, likely to last many years between changes).

The Maha MH-C9000 is probably the best AA and AAA charger available today; unfortunately it's priced like it too. But it seems able to consistently fully charge batteries as I am almost always able to get nearly the rated capacity on discharge after charging on the MH-C9000. Most other chargers seem somewhat hit or miss on when they stop for "battery full".

I might have to take a second look at rechargeable. These sound like they might do some good.

My current strategy has been to avoid rechargeable. I have never been very impressed with them. Which sidesteps the whole problem of rotating them out of kits for recharging, self-discharge, potential memory, and finding myself in a tight spot with dead batteries.

I went with a combination of quality alkaline cells and lithium cells in a few critical locations. For my BOBs and kits every year I change out the alkaline that are installed and install the backup set. A new set becomes the backup.

The lithiums I have scheduled for a two year cycle but haven't had them long enough to cycle them yet. I have been told a three year cycle would be more reasonable, given their longevity, as long as the device they are in isn't defective. The time to change them is coming up in June. If they look strong I just may go to a three years rotation.

The used, but still good , batteries get used at work or in non-critical applications like the clocks and TV remotes.

Tip: Use a sharpie to mark on the battery the month/year they are installed. The manufacturers use-by dates are not very useful for batteries installed in devices.

I will have to look into low-self-discharge NiHM. thanks for the heads up.

Me too. Thank you guys for sharing your experience!

That is where I was a couple years ago. I had tried NiCad, rechargeable alkaline, NiMH and was disapointed with each.

These low self discharge are finally what rechargeabls should have been.
You alao need a good charger, I had spent $29 at walmart on what was supposed to be a good charger only to find out later that it rarely put more that 80% of a charge in. So I spent the $40 for a MAHA and its even recovered several of my older non low self discharge NiMH's.

I've found that LSD NiMH now last as long as alkailine within 6 months of being charged and just top all mine off at each season change or after use.

Eugene, which MAHA model you've got?

I have the C401FS. I bought it for its small size and ability to run from 12v. I'll probably pick up one of their bigger ones as well. But the 401 is small enough to travel.

I know I'm bringing back the dead here but yesterday I started going through ALL my batteries and testing them on my charger.

It was a good thing I did....the results were surprising. Batteries which I thought were still good were not. In once case a 2050mAh AA battery tested at less than 800mAh.

I also had some brand new 700mAh AAA batteries (cheap brand which came with the charger) test at less than 400 each.

I'm only 1/2 way through and so far only 8 batteries have tested to anywhere near their labeled capacity...I've tossed quite a few. I'm very tempted to suck it up and order all new cells online...get something I know is good quality like Enveloops.

Thats why I gave up on rechargeables a few years ago. Between the self discharge and walmart quality chargers they never worked.
But I can now say that Eneloop and others like them do work, I'm feeling confident in the gear in my bob working when I pull it out now because every time I test it works.

Now that I do the math several of these batteries are VERY old so I guess it's time to upgrade...nothing lasts forever.

I've invested in Eneloops for my digital cameras and critical stuff, and a whole bunch of Rayovac Hybrids for everyday use. So far, six months and counting, I'm very pleased with both types.

In contrast, I invested in a whole bunch of Energizer 2500 NiMHs last year, and I think they're rubbish. If you charge them and use them immediately, they're functional; but leave them sit for a few days and they lose a lot of their charge. Some of them failed after only a few dozen charges. Apalling.

The Hybrids initially gave me a bit of trouble when installed in my AA MagLED. However, I cleaned the contacts on the batteries with a pencil eraser, and they've been perfect ever since.

No way am I going back to old-style NiMHs.

Keep in mind that sometimes the batteries are not to blame. If you charge ’em with a crappy charger, you get a crappy charge. I’ve had really good luck with the Maha chargers (MH-C401FS) myself, and would definitely recommend giving them a try. In fact, they are probably good enough to surprise you and bring back some of those batteries you are throwing away.

I'm using a LaCrosse BC-900. The charger isn't the issue.

I'm testing them all and when they're 'dead' I'm running them on the 'refresh' cycle just to be sure...that's why the whole process is taking so long.

I think for some of them they're just old. I came across some the other day that I'd misplaced and the charger wouldn't even register that a battery was inserted let alone try to charge it.

Good to hear. I just wanted to make sure you weren’t wasting batteries that could be resurrected if possible. It’s also good to hear that most of them are old batteries, so at least you hopefully got your money’s worth out of their service lives.

Up until 3 months ago I wouldn't buy a digital camera unless it ran on AA batteries...so I had more than a few around...some as old as 6 or 7 years old.

I think I'm going to buy some MAHA Imedion ultra low discharge batteries. I hear they're some of the most cold resistant NiMH batteries around. MAHA claims they perform at full capacity (or close to it) up to -10C.

I've pretty much standardized on eneloop myself. I still have some old NiMh batteries, some as old as 2001 that the maha charger has recovered and they now run things like kids toys.
I use eneloop in all my prep gear because I never let it sit for years, I make it a habit to pull it out once every few months to test it and make sure it still works so at those times I just top off the batteries charge.
I haven't tried rayovac since I canstill get the eneloop for the same price.
A small note on the MAHA c401, its fast setting is actually a little too fast getting the eneloop a bit warm which could reduce its lifetime a little. I try to always charge on the slow setting and reserve the fast for if I really need a spare set charged up right away. I try to keep two sets of batteries for every peice of gear I have, I need to get a couple sets more for my wife as the spare for her digicam became the set for her breast pump so when we were away from home for a few hours one weekend I did use the fast mode to keep up with both. Once I get a couple more packs so she can have spares then I can slow charge one set while the other is being used.
I plan to pick up a second c401 soon so I can charge 8 at a time. I had an old rayovac charger that I paid $30 for from wamart and found that it didn't fully charge which partly led to my older batteries not working very well. I have some from 2001 that probably didn't even get 100 cycles before acting like they were worn out. The MAHA charger has brought them back to life.
I've standardized on AA's for many years now refusing to buy a digicam or anything else that uses propritary batteries if there is soemthing that uses AA available. I;ve found that with propritary packs after several years the cost even to rebuild the packs usually exceeds the cost of just buying a new peice of gear.

So, which brand is the winner? Eneloop or MAHA Imedion?
(Got 8 Eneloops already, but Imedion is much cheaper: http://www.thomasdistributingshop.com/-MAHA-IMEDION-AA-2100-mAh-Ultra-Low-Discharge_p_199-1080.html).

I'm going to order some Imedions from Thomas Distributing because they're on sale and cheaper...and because of the cold weather recommendation (which is listed on the Thomas site somewhere)

But I've heard good things about both...and the Rayovac Hybrids.

I buy 4 packs of AA eneloop for $7.99 at HHGreg Stores here. Thomas have them on sale too for the same price as the MAHA so price isn't really a factor as neither is cheaper.
Does WalMart still have the exclusive deal on the Rayovac's, thats what prevented me from trying them.