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#211381 - 11/16/10 01:55 AM Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
So, I was a chaperone for the school trip to the Pocono Environmental Education Center (PEEC). 160 6th graders, about 50 adults, heated bungalow cabins and dorms, so it wasn't really camping, but it was a good trip for thinking about cold, wet and rainy conditions, because it was cold, wet and rainy and we were outside most of the time.

Lesson 1: If you don't keep your waterproof leather boots treated with waterproofing, they won't be waterproof when you're standing in a puddle for 90 minutes during the orienteering lessons.

Lesson 2: Children are incredibly stupid and won't remember to bring their own rain gear even after you tell them to bring rain gear 100 times. Carry a few spare ponchos.

Lesson 3: Adults are incredibly stupid and won't remember to bring their own rain gear even after you tell them to bring rain gear 100 times. Carry a few spare ponchos.

Lesson 4: Hypothermia sets in fast. My co-chaperone for the group was the chief of the EMS squad near me for many years, a paramedic. Due to lesson 2 and lesson 3, I was able to see by his pointing out to me the early onset of hypothermia in children and adults and was able to act immediately.

Lesson 5: Those hand-warmer packs? You need 4 times more than you think you need.

All in all, a fun trip.

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#211382 - 11/16/10 02:11 AM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: MartinFocazio]
sotto Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 450
Gosh, you're a lot braver than me.

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#211384 - 11/16/10 02:20 AM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: MartinFocazio]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
lesson 5... is there a particular brand of the air activated iron compound hand warmers that is better than others?... I bought some for a 3gun match in Ga this last weekend and while they were within expiration date, did not produce much heat

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#211385 - 11/16/10 02:27 AM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: MartinFocazio]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
I don't bother with hand or foot warmers. I haven't found any brand that works well enough, even within the expiration date.

Regarding waterproof leather boots, if you have to spray waterproofing on them, then you have boots that were never waterproof. I have found certain models of Timberland to keep my feet completely dry in the wettest of conditions.
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#211386 - 11/16/10 02:39 AM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: ireckon]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
The boots were definitely waterproof once, they are just old and cracking a bit, so I slather this wet proof stuff on them, it's sort of like a wax... But it is time for new boots...these lasted a good many years.

As far as hand warmers, I never had any problems with one I bought, they heat up and stay warm for me no problem.

One last thing I forgot in original post was that the vast majority of the kids and parents were totally and correctly prepared and the bad weather didn't deter them from 9 hours + of outdoor fun. Just a few shivering folks...the rest were all set for the day.

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#211414 - 11/16/10 01:50 PM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: MartinFocazio]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Goretex socks are very useful for standing around in puddles of water as all boots that are breathable (leather) will eventually wet out. Grangers produce some good boot care products, such as Grangers G-wax. Some good advice on how to look after your boots available here;

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1315817391?bctid=68850608001

My Berghaus Alto Trek boots are still usable even after 10 years use. A few years ago the soles started to separate from the upper leathers, but after injecting some DOW CORNING® 3145 RTV MIL-A-46146 into the crack with a syringe, that fixed the problem.

Quote:
Lesson 2: Children are incredibly stupid and won't remember to bring their own rain gear even after you tell them to bring rain gear 100 times. Carry a few spare ponchos.

Lesson 3: Adults are incredibly stupid and won't remember to bring their own rain gear even after you tell them to bring rain gear 100 times. Carry a few spare ponchos.


Rather than hand out Ponchos, would it not have been more appropriate to let the children and the adults go off without their rain gear or disallow them from participating. Perhaps a more important lesson would be that there will be times when there isn't a helping hand to bail them out to keep them warm and dry.



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (11/16/10 01:53 PM)

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#211425 - 11/16/10 07:45 PM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: MartinFocazio]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
Nah, the dads and moms gave every ill-equipped person enough of an embarrassing dressing down that it won't happen again smile

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#211428 - 11/16/10 09:12 PM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: MartinFocazio]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Kudos to you, Martin smile

I agree, getting cold and getting scolded is a lesson that will stick much more than simply being told "you can't attend".

Nobody dies from getting a bit cold and a bit of shivering, but they sure would not want to get that cold again. And to top it off with some well deserved, earnest scolding from your fellows... Yup, those lessons sticks.

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#211434 - 11/17/10 12:30 AM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: MartinFocazio]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
An old army trick is to have people hold up their two most important pieces of gear as they march by. Just be sure that scanning what people hold up you stay alert enough to spot wiseacres. Instead of holding up the poncho and entrenching tool a buddy help up a large pouch of chewing tobacco and a flask of spirits. Sarge was so glazed over he missed it.

Buddy checking also works. Broken into small groups one checks the others. The threat is that if anyone in the group doesn't have the item the leader has to give up his/hers. Gets interesting if you are talking about parachutes.

Gear-inspection laid out in front of each person is an option.

All that said there will always be people who don't cover their bases. In any large group there will always be failures. Leaders are prone to failures as they get make sure everyone else is prepared and overlook their own situation. A good second in command makes it his business to check number one's gear and will be sensitive to the areas they tend to overlook. Training and due diligence can reduce the rate of failure but it will never eliminate it entirely. Part of the human condition.

Given an average set of people and reasonable levels of diligence a failure rate of two percent is a common working estimate. With close to 200 people with limited experience I'd figure at least four to eight people with issues. Half of those will be on the order of being brain-dead incomprehensible.

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#211455 - 11/17/10 02:28 PM Re: Some lessons learned with 160 6th Graders [Re: Art_in_FL]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 390
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
...With close to 200 people with limited experience I'd figure at least four to eight people with issues. Half of those will be on the order of being brain-dead incomprehensible.


Some days, this reads closer to the truth:

Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
...With close to 200 people...Half of those will be on the order of being brain-dead incomprehensible...


j/k...mostly
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