An interesting story about a father and his daughter who had made a remote part of Forest Park in Oregon thier "home" for 4 years.
Heres a snippet:

"After an extensive search, police located the pair the next day hiding a short distance from an elaborate camp dug into a steep hillside. Under a tarp-covered, wood-framed shelter, they found sleeping bags, a partially burnt log, a stack of old World Book Encyclopedias, rakes and other tools. A rope swing, a tilled vegetable garden and a small creek were nearby.

The man and girl told police they had lived in the park for four years. Police were amazed to find them clean, well-fed and healthy. They said the 12-year-old girl was well-spoken beyond her years. "

Its an amazing story, with what seems like a happy ending.

http://tinyurl.com/2l39w

"well spoken beyond her years"

I am surprised that they were not split up. Obviously this is a dangerous and subversive pair. Learning outside the public school environment where they would have been taught the true meaning and danger of the Nazi symbol, not to mention the all important methods of applying latex to bananas.

But seriously, this is an impressive family. They did what they had to do to live on what to most of us would be sub-survival rations, and not only survive, but grow and learn. I realize that this is only part of the story and there may be darker aspects not shown here, but it sounds like a very healthy environment for them. I hope their "upgrade" is good for them.

Some 20 or more years ago, -I heard about a Young Man or Teen who had a Real Good Setup for Himself at the Bottom of an Elevator Shalf!

And Much More Recently, -Probably Less than a Year Ago, -I've heard of a Man who Lived in another Homeowner's Attic! This One was in Kansas. He had a Setup where he could Lift and Lower a Section of Shingles, -To Get In and Out.

The Elementary Mistake of Eating Too Much of the "Host" Family's Cereal, when they weren't around, -Did a Lot towards finally Doing him In! The "Host" Couldn't Help eventually Getting Suspicious and Noticing Something Odd Afoot!

The Attic Live-In also had a Door Blocked Closed, at a Wrong Time, when the Actual, More Conventional, Home Occupants *Were* Around!

His Good System and Setup, were Undone!, -By these Two Simple, Elementary, Mistakes!

Though it was at least Many Months, Perhaps More, -Before Anyone was the Wiser and Onto Him!

These Two Examples also Bring to Mind a Third General Example! And this has to do with those Ever So Rare, -but Ever So Masterful!, -"Master Imposters!" You Hear About Them on the News every once in a Great While!

Like that Guy a Few Years Ago in Arizona! Phoenix I Think. The Guy had Successfully Pulled Off so Many Different Aliases and Identities over Many Years! That even the Phoenix TV News Anchors, -Couldn't be Sure of his Veracity or Identity, -Even After the Matter Finally Broke! And That just over some Chance Fluke or Lucky Break.

A Lawman in the Jurisdiction, with the Reputation as One of the Tuffest Sheriffs in America, -Then Had Custody over him. At one point, this Sheriff Remarked, -"What if he were a Spy?!", -The Sheriff then Quickly Added!, -with a 2 + 2 = 4 Kind of Light Going Off in his Head, -"Maybe he *IS* a Spy!,..." Not that he Automatically was. But with a Master Imposter like that!, -You can See where this Sheriff was Coming From! And Can he Really be Blamed for Such?! For Having Such a Reasonable Suspicion? Of Course Not!, -I Think would be the Answer!

This was on One of those Prime Time News Type Programs, a Few Years Ago. (I Forget whether it was Prime Time, 20 / 20, or Another Similar Such Show.)

I Discomfortably and Disapprovingly Deplore some of the Conning and Crookery that Many of these Master Imposters Do!

While at the Same Time, -Having to Greatly Admire Them, -for Such a Masterful Skill of "Master Impostering" in Itself!, -that They've Got Down to an Art and a Science!

One can Differ with their "Morality" or "Ethics", -or Sometimes Lack Thereof, -Yet Marvel and Wonder at Just How They Do It!

They're an Exceedingly Rare Breed Indeed. In TEOTWAWKI or Other Times and Situations, -This Ability can Come In Handy! And is Quite a Skill!

(Though More Common Garden Variety Identity Theft and Such, -Unfortunately Isn't so Rare).

I once Enjoyably and Admirably Read About Another Master Imposter, -I Think This One may have been from the 1800s. This Guy Successfully Pulled Off Being a Ship Captain, a Doctor, and Maybe a Dozen Things Else! All by just Having the Gift of Being Able to Convincingly Pass Himself Off as Such! What a Free, Independent, Adventurous, Way to Live! Though it can Certainly Have it's "Fugitive" Type Aspects, Too!

Again, -I Utterly Oppose Identity Theft and Other Conmanship! I Do Not Approve of where even a Master Impostor's Actions, -Crosses that Line!

But Master Impostership in Itself!, is Quite a Skill! And One thats Worthy of a Certain Marveling At, and Admiration Of, in Itself!

Beyond it's Self Evident Skill, -I Acknowledge that some such People may be Basically "Low Rats", and that Sometimes there may be Little to No Nobility About it! Still, Not Always. And a Skill or Talent is a Skill or Talent!

I Had been Thinking of Someday Addressing this in a Post of it's Own, -Around Our Campfire. -"Master Imposters". Its now so Happened to Have Come Up here in this One.

Back to Kansas and the Elevator / Lift now. Such People too Create Interesting, and Very Admirable Shelter and Survival Setups! From Time to Time. You Hear About Them every Once in a Wowl too. Often there are some Good Lessons to be Learned from Such Examples as Well. Of What *To* Do. And Often also, -of What *Not* to Do! (Like Eating Too Much of the Family's Cereal!)

Which also Brings to Mind what I'll Call, "Homeless Survival Techniques". A Good Survival Guide can be Culled Together Out of just That! That Collected Survival Knowledge and Wisdom Gained by Such Community by now!

There's a Lot about Survival Many of Them Utterly Don't Know! Of Standard, Classic Survival and Such. Even Among some of their Best Survivors. To say Nothing of Those Not so Oriented or Inclined. I'm Not saying that they typically Know Everything Across the Survival Board. Many Don't Know So by Quite a Long Shot!

Like the Fact that some (Who Can Hike), -Shud Get the Heck Out of the Cold Climes! (Hike South in Summer!), -and Head to the Sunbelt South and West! Such a One may Still be Homeless. If Still Down on their Luck, Unable to Find Help, a Job, and So On. But Better to be so in Tampa, Brownsville, or San Diego! Than in Duluth, Denver, or Detroit!

But Even So, -Many of the Homeless Know a Good Survival Thing or Two or Three.....!, -That even we Don't Readily Know! Many of Them have Come Up with some Pretty Ingenious Survival Techniques, Along their Way!

I Do Feel for Them. And I Know that Many of Them Aren't Exactly Angels. The Root Causes of, and Solutions to Homelessness, are Beyond me right now, as well as being Beyond the Scope of this Post.

But as to Pure Survival Techniques and Knowledge that Many of Them Have Come Up With!, -They've Got some Really Good Ones! Of Which we and Others can Do some Learning From!

This is Just One Other Area of Survival Knowledge Out There in the Society, -Which One may Not Immeadiately or Readily Expect. Which Goes Beyond Only our Basic, Standard, or Classic Survival.

There are Others too, -within the Vast Spread of Life, as a Whole! Keep an Eye and Ear Tuned for Them! As They may happen to Come Along!

I was Thinking of someday doing a Post titled "Homeless Survival Techniques". Here too, I've now in Effect Done so.

Whether it be a Couple in a Wooded Park, a Guy at the Obscure Bottom Portions of an Elevator, a Master Impostor, an Ingenious Homeless Survival Technique, or a Guy Living Unbeknowngst in a Kansas Attic!, - Man, -Faced with the Need and Imperative of Survival! -Can and Does Often Come Up with some Mighty Creative, Good Ones! Often there are Some Real and Good Lessons to be Learned from Such!

When you Occassionally Hear of Such, -Try Not to Let such Lessons and the Like, -Just Pass you On By! Survey Them, and Learn What They may Have to Offer!

PS, -I've just Got Done Watching a PBS Program on the Johnstown Flood, -Which has Kinda Inspired and Redoubled my Desire!, to Become Something of a Knowledgeable Buff, on That!

The Way They over Time just Pobbled that Dam Together!, and So Raising Tremendously the Level of that Lake! The Drenching Spell of Incessant Rain! The Complacency of the Town! How our Pennsylvania Appalachians Hemmed the Place In! It All Came Together!, -As One Great Recipe for Disaster!.......!

Another PS, -Next Day now. (Within this Edit Window). I've just Clikked on the Link and Read the "Out of the Woods" Story. Two Thots Coming to Mind are,

1). In some Respects, -Too Bad they Didn't Remain Undiscovered, and Thus Able to Stay! In Many Ways, They had Quite a Good Thing Going! But of course, in that They *were* able to get More Conventional Shelter and a Job out of it, -Their Being Discovered has happened to have Worked Out Better for Them, in Other Ways too.

And my Other Immeadiate Thought, -2). -Is that a Set of World Books can certainly be Mighty Heavy! Of course the Article says that They had only a Few Volumes. But Still, -Even those can be Heavy to Carry Around! Heck though, -If you Find some around Town, or at the Goodwill, -and Walk Back Two Miles with Them, -What the Heck!, God Bless You! No Mean Feat! A Whole Set now *Would* have been a Feat!

Which Reminds me, -National Geographics are as Heavy as Heck! And are a Real Son of a Gun!, -to be Lugging Around!

Both They and the World Book, *Are* Enjoyable and a Great Self Educational Resource! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]grommit[/email]

Nice post Scott. I think you'll be interested in this article.

P.S. I like your style of writing, reminds me of some old books, Robinson Crusoe for example.

Cheers

I Did Find your Link Pretty Interesting and Informative, and Thanks for it!

Much of it's Things I've had Occur to me, in One Way or Another, Before. But No Less Interesting or Informative! Some New and Interesting Things were there as Well. Plus a Few "Unintended Leaveouts".

For Instance, -In Addition to his Fine Methods for Catching Pigeons, -I Think Netting would be Good for this Purpose! Or some sort of a "Shoot Forth" and/or Trapping, -Kind of Netting Combination.

Also, Now being Reminded of an Earlier Post(s), -a Handful of Rocks or Other Substances can be Quickly Thrown into a Nearby Bunching of Pigeons. (Grounded or Less Likely Airborne). Some Being Thereby Disabled or Wounded Enuf, to Easily be Able to be Caught, -Would Quite Likely Result.

One should also be rather Easily Able to Lure a Bunch into a Box Like Trap, -with the Ever Present Buns, Crackers, or Other Bread Products, Readily Found in Urban Areas. If Not Already Nearby on the Sidewalk, -They can Pretty Readily be Found in Trash Cans.

Hate to Sound like a Garbage Picker here, but Here we're of course Talking About a Survival Scenario. And here One After All's Using such Bread for Pigeon Bait Purposes, -Not Eating such Themself.

It might also at Times be Possible, -to Get In at Pigeon Roosts, -at Evening or Night, -When They may be Unawaredly Asleep, Rather Inactive, or Certainly More Boxed In.

One can even Modify a Sleeping Area as a Trap, -or Make a Sleeping Area / Trap, in this Regard!

But Getting At Pigeon Roosts, -May More Often be Easier Said than Done! In that They Often Roost Up High. Or in Otherwise Rather Inaccessable or Dangerous Areas.

More Conventional Ground Traps / Baits / Netting, and "Recycler's" Great Ideas on the Subject, -Still can Nevertheless Be Better!, and Quite Feasable!

Even if I Didn't Recently have some Reasonably Possible Concerns about maybe Becoming Homeless Myself, -I Would Find "Recycler's" Observations Very Informative and Interesting in their Own Right! Importance and Right.

Aluminum Can Collecting for Recycling Purposes, -Can also Bring in at least some Money.

Along Lines of Singing or Capitalizing on Other Talents for Money, -I just Happen to have Thot of Juggling a Few Weeks Ago. I Have a Little Yen to Learn and Practice some Juggling in Any Event. If One Knows That, -That Too can be Such a Talent Skill, -that a Homeless Person could Use Towards Basic Income / Living / and Survival Purposes.

Someone who's at least an Amateur Magician, -Can also Apply This Very Well! In the Same Way!

Magic Trix and Magicianship, By the Way, -is One of Those Many Sundry *Other* Areas of Life, -that just Could, -Have Importyant Survival Applications. In Urban, Teotwawki, or even Standard and Classic Survival. What One can perhaps Do in a Pinch, -With a "Sleight of Hand" Ability!

Go Back to WW 2 for Example! If Someone's Trying to Evade the Gestapo, for instance, -Yet Also Knows Some Good Sleight of Hand Magicianship! -This can Stand Him or Her in Really Good Stead! Towards Pulling Something Over on the Gestapo or their Likes. Towards Getting on Out of a Tight Spot!

Many Other "Outside our Area" Fields, -Foreign Languages Knowledge / Knack / or Fluency, for Example, -Can Also So and Importantly Contribute!

Maps, Geography, Soils, Plants and Gardening, Forestry, Fish or Chicken Raising, Firearms, Hunting, Fishing, Trapping, Archery, Marksmanship, Martial Arts and Other Self Defense, Animal Wisdom and Ways, American Indian Wisdom and Ways, Swimming and Diving, Caveing, Health and Nutrition, Woodworking, Cabin Building, Rock and Mountain Climbing, Bycycling, Plant and Animal Identification, Grinding and Milling, Cooking and Food Preservation, First Aid / Safety / Emergency Prep, and Such Like, Farming, Weather Wisdom, Poisions, Boats and Seamanship, Radio and Comm, Anthropological Knowledge of Local Natives / Customs / and Peoples, -the List can Go On and On!

So Look to Some Other Love or Interest in your Life!, to See if It May Just Have some Important and Useful, -Survival Applications!!!

Look at All the Great, True Life Stories!, from WW-2 and Elsewhere! Where both Servicemen and Civilians, -Were Able to Magnificently Pull some Pretty Magnificent Things Off! Precisely Because they *Had* some Good Knowledge or Talents!, -From some "Total *Other* Area" of Life!

I once Read of a Free French Tank Soldier, -Who in the WW-2 Liberation of Paris, -Who Magnificently Did Such! This Free French Tankman Landed a Shot Right on Target!, -Down the Champs Elysees! All Because he Remembered the Length and Distance Down Such, -From Something he Had Once Read in an Encyclopedia!

This is the Kind of Stuff I'm Referring to here! *These* Sorts of Things! Thats the Idea and Spirit! I Beleive they Nowadays Call it, -as Thinking a Little "Outside the Box"!

How About All the "Outside Skills" which Come into Play! In So Many of the World's Great Escapes!, to Date?! A Great, Rich Heritage, and Knowledge Pool and Base, Has Been Built Up here too! The "Papers Forger"! The Aircraft or Balloon Designers from Another, Earlier Life. To Name just Two! These Skills Now Get Them OUT of their Cage! Coming in Mighty Handy! And Playing Such an Important Part!

And How Bout All of Houdini's Great Escape Artistry Skills and Secrets!? How Handy and Applicable They Shud Come In! Should One so Know Them! This would be a Great Topic, Post, and Thread In Itself! *He Did it Somehow! And as Such, -It CAN Be Done!*

Another One I've Long Enjoyed Doing, -is Balancing! On Fences, Railroad Tracks, Etc. As I Walk Along. In a sort of Balancing / Walking Combination! Shooting For as Much Length and Endurance as One Can! I've Gotten Quite Good at Both! It's a Nice Little Pastime! This is Another Talent / Skill / Area of Life, -Which can Have Important and Useful, -Survival Applicabilities!

So Such "Other Fields Applications", -Would be Great "Courses" to Add to the "Curriculum" of our Dream "Survival U."! (University).

If you Could Draw Up the Courseload of your Dream "Survival University", -What Might that Include or Entail?! What would you Think to Be Absolute Musts?! Required Courses! How Much Field Practice / Lessons / and Tests, -Would you Think Should be Included? Etc Etc Etc. This Too can Make for an Interesting Post and Thread in Itself! We may Do so Sometime.

Thanks of course for your Kind and Considerate Observation on my Robinson Crusoeish Style. More than Once, -I've Felt myself to be, Kind of a 1700s or 1800s Type Guy! And Robinson Crusoe and Swiss Family Robinson Type Stories, -While Not on my Most Forward Portions of my Front Burner, -are of course Still Well Up There!

Beyond Such General RC and Such of Style(s), -I Think I Still Have an Occassional Writing Bug, to Polish Up, -for People's Easier (or at Least Certainly Not Difficult!) Reading. Some Instances Still Get Thru my "Composing / Editing Screen"! To One Degree or Another. Thankfully They're Mostly Smallish, -when they Do Occur.

In some of my Earlier Posts, -a Lot More of Such Sometimes Got By me! I've of Course Wrestled that Bull by the Horns, and Worked on It, -and though Much of This may have Took Two or Three Weeks All Told!, -I Got It Down! I've Greatly Improved Those Aspects of my Then Writing Style Hangups, -and I Think I've Since Pretty Consistently Maintained Such! I Think I for a Long While now, -I Have Got it Up to Where It Essentially Should Be.

It is Only Right, Fair, and Considerate, -to Whoever may be Reading!

I'm Glad I've now Wrestled it Down! And am Keeping it Down!

As Some Have Previously Said, -I Have the Substance and Values End of Things Down Real Good! But my Style Lacks of the Time!, -were Such that Some People *Had* to Constructively Offer me their Helpful Criticism and Comments!

But Some Occassional Remaining Bugs / Room for Improvement, -I'm Pretty Sure Sometimes Remains. I'll Continue to Keep a Watch on it!

That All Said and So, -Thanks For your Larger, Robinson Crusoe like, Compliments.

Though I am Not British myself, (Except in a Goodly Some Ways At Heart!), -I Extend Cheers to You as Well! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ditchfield[/email]

I'm sorry if I offend anyone here, but the homeless people this side of the pond can hardly string together a sentence, let alone trap pidgeons.
They are generally so high on drink and drugs they couldn't tell you the time of day.
To class them as some kind of survival experts is taking it a bit far.
I leave for work at 8am - they are sitting on the sidewalk begging for money.
I come back from work at 6pm - they are still on the sidewalk begging for money.
No skill needed there
Martin

Yes, -a Good Deal of your Observation is True on my Side of the Great Atlantic Pond too! I Don't Mean to Apparently Suggest that All our Homeless are Such Survival Experts. In Fact, I Did happen to Mention this in my earlier Post. That a Very Many of Them Certainly are Not! Or at Least Fall Well Short! There are Indeed Many of These as Well!

All Told, -Its a Mixed Bag of the Two Types. Along with their Many various Gradations in Between. We've Got our Many NON Experts, who in a Hope Against Hope Fashion, -Just Try Begging and Bumming Money, in the Ways you've said!

But at the Same Time, -Others Among the General Homeless Crowd, -Are Quite Good to Expert at their Form of Survival! And So Have Built Up a Pretty Good Knowledge Base by now! Of Their Particular Sub-Area of Survival as a Whole.

This Great Body of Knowledge Certainly *Hasn't* Been Gleaned from the Likes as you Readily See!

The One whose Written the Link that Someone's Provided for me / Us, -Here in This Thread, -Certainly Qualifies into this Second, "Better Survival" Category!

All Told among the Homeless as a Whole, -Both Kinds Abound! Comparative Percentages I Know Not. But a Generally Mixed Bag of Both Kinds, is the Operative Truth in the Matter, here.

The Ones you so See, However, -Can Make it Understandably Seem as if the Entire Group were Overwhelmingly to Entirely So!

Whatever the Actual Percentages or Numbers, -You've Got your Brits, I Know, -Who Shud Homelessness Unfortunately Come their Way, -*Aren't* Going to Just Roll Over and Die! Just as we Have this Subset here on our American Side of the Pond too.

They are Not Among the Group you Typically See. They are at Least Oftentimes, -Trying to Survive in Other, Better, Ways! They Know Better!

Thats a Large Part of the Reason you Don't Readily See Them!, -In with the "Other Bunch"! But This "Better Survival Subset", is a Part of Any Overall Homeless Group, Anywhere in the World!

Sure, Some of Them may Often Hold Out a Change Cup, "Like" Others. But There are Many Larger Differences, as Oppossed to Similarities, -Between the Two Subgroups!

My Friend, I Mean neither to Be Nor Sound Cross in Any Way! And I am Not Cross so! I'm just Stating my Views, Observations, and Differences, -In and Of Themselves. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> [color:"black"] [/color] [email]joblot[/email]

I don't know about the other side of the pond, but I recall one "beggar" in the states that made the national papers.

He left his home in suburbia in the early morning hours, and went to a cheap hotel in the city. There he dressed in his "poor man street clothes". After begging all day long, he went back to the cheap hotel, changed clothes and went home.

My memory is not exact, but I believe he did this for about 17 years before he packed it all in for some reason. His average take during that time was in excess of $50,000.00 US per year and he had built a comfortable living for himself and his wife, a nice portfolio of investments, and a decent retirement income.

Bottom line is that being dumb, drugged, and drunk may be real or may be an act for sympathy. It is awfully hard to tell for anyone who is disgusted with the sight of you, or feels sorry for the plight they believe you are suffering.

If it is an act to make you contribute, it is a better survival method than trapping wildlife in the local parks with a heck of a better retirement plan.

Bountyhunter

Yes, -There are some Pretty Savvy Operators among that Crowd too!

These are sort of a Tweener, Between the Outright Beggars One Sees on the Way to or from Work. And the Subset who Really has Come to Know Something about Street / Urban / and Homeless Survival. Such as from the Guy who's Link is Provided here in this Thread.

Its Occurred to me a Number of Years Ago, -That Some of the Most Greedy, Uncareing People I've ever Seen or Heard of!, -Are Poor People!

(Of course to a Point, that could be Understandable Enuff, in that Some are Poor so. An Understandable Enuf "Cutthroat Motive", in a Way. If Not Exactly a Nobly Correct One.)

And Not the Typical PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. / Conservative / Business Friendly / Money Persueing People, as Some Others Often Charge! Not that All Poor or Homeless are So, now! But Among Some of the Greatest of the Greed!,.....

I've said that Both Kinds Abound. True, but in this case, -a Third Type must be Added to the Mix! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]bountyhunter[/email]

Follow up:
They've gone again. Strangely I feel kind of sorry for them.
May be when the daughter reaches her teens, will the pressure grow for the pair to return to "civilisation". In my opinion they should now be left alone.
Anyway, heres the link:

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=67874