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#188023 - 11/11/09 03:49 AM Sheepdogs??
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
I've recently seen a couple youtube videos by "Nutnfancy." He seems to mainly do knife and gun reviews. The two recent ones are "The Sheepdog Concept" and "Close to Engage." I know I've seen the term sheepdog on this forum, and I bet some here have seen some of the videos.

The links are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW8BZ7pRt28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH3GV7EmzI4

His ideas are not going to be agreed with by all, but his concept is to promote what he sees as a sheepdog and when encountering an armed threat, to close to engage.

Any comments?


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#188044 - 11/11/09 02:58 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: Dan_McI]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Sheepdogs are cute, but I prefer my Chesapeake.

-john

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#188046 - 11/11/09 03:27 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: JohnN]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Sheepdogs aren't always what you expect.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#188056 - 11/11/09 05:23 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: Russ]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Russ
Sheepdogs aren't always what you expect.


Not exactly what Nutnfancy is referring to in his videos. I prefer big retrievers.

A 'sheepdog' in his videos seems to be a person, almost any person, that seeks to protect others from harm or danger.

In the "sheepdog concept video, he mentions as sheepdogs a civilian who jumped into freezing water when a plane crashed into the Potomac in the early 1980s, the people on Flight 93 on 9/11, and others who in moment of need acted.


In his videos, he is also advocating people carrying firearms to be ready to confront someone who is inflicting harm on others. His idea in this is to always be prepared to engage.

One things I see that one could disagree with, besides carrying a firearm, was his idea that someone would always want to be on the scene of an emergency. His example is Flight 93 and wishing one was also on board that flight. I question this idea as a bit extreme.

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#188059 - 11/11/09 05:40 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: Dan_McI]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Certainly, take your personal safety seriously as it is ultimately your responsibility. But I find the whole sheepdog concept a bit Walter Mitty.

And as for what any random person on the Internet says, we all have to apply our personal value meter (and BS meter). Most people have something we can learn from, but they also have things we should reject.

We need to take things, consider them, and ultimately make up our own mind on the relative values.

-john


Edited by JohnN (11/11/09 06:04 PM)

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#188060 - 11/11/09 05:51 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: JohnN]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Oh man I'd better not be wearing my Ribz Vest when Nutnfancy is nearby. wink

BTW aren't sheepdogs just wolves that have sold out to a higher authority ? (now just where is that controversy smiley when you need it)



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#188065 - 11/11/09 06:50 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: JohnN]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: JohnN
Certainly, take your personal safety seriously as it is ultimately your responsibility. But I find the whole sheepdog concept a bit Walter Mitty.

And as for what any random person on the Internet says, we all have to apply our personal value meter (and BS meter). Most people have something we can learn from, but they also have things we should reject.

We need to take things, consider them, and ultimately make up our own mind on the relative values.

-john


I kind of agree that the approach he takes seems a bit Mittyesque, but he is also not saying he is one. Instead, he seems to be advocating it, while implying that he hopes he will have these attributes at the appropriate time. He may have already proven it, to himself and/or others, but that's not stated.

However, the world needs more people willing to stick their necks out for the benefit of others, and it always will. So, in that regard, I cannot fault his effort. Overall, in my book, it's a plus.

That doesn't mean fault cannot be found in parts of it. And some may find fault where others will not. I don't think I am ready to break prohibitions that create so-called "gun free zones," although I think that such laws are misguided.

I also don't think you can simply become what he advocates. Some people do not have it in them, imo.

I watched the videos with a somewhat critical eye and was also looking for comments on where the videos went wrong, either in general or for a specific person.

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#188069 - 11/11/09 07:05 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: Dan_McI]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Dan_McI

I kind of agree that the approach he takes seems a bit Mittyesque, but he is also not saying he is one.


I should be clear, I'm not trying to assign an assessment to Nutnfancy or anyone else, simply my feelings about the connotations the concept seems to evoke.

Originally Posted By: Dan_McI

However, the world needs more people willing to stick their necks out for the benefit of others, and it always will.


Agreed. Heck, the world needs for people to understand they are responsible for *themselves*.

-john


Edited by JohnN (11/11/09 08:04 PM)

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#188083 - 11/11/09 10:49 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: Dan_McI]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I understand Grossman's concept of Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs, and that many of us would like to consider ourselves in the Sheepdog class. However, note that with real sheepdogs, you need to put them in with a herd of sheep to see what they've got -- are they sheepdogs or just dogs who don't have a clue about sheep.

Likewise, there are a lot of guys who have a lot of guns and make a good show on the gun range, but they have never been tested in the face of the targets shooting back. How many have seen the face of a victim surrounded by ice going hypothermic and certain to die if help doesn't arrive soon? Few of us. We can talk about preparedness, but we won't know if we can jump into that river until we see that face.

The videos make a good point regarding doing the right thing in the face of adversity. But you never know if you'll jump in until after you find yourself in the water.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#188132 - 11/12/09 05:15 PM Re: Sheepdogs?? [Re: Russ]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Russ
We can talk about preparedness, but we won't know if we can jump into that river until we see that face.

The videos make a good point regarding doing the right thing in the face of adversity. But you never know if you'll jump in until after you find yourself in the water.


Absolutely. Cannot dispute this in the least.

However, isn't it more likely that people WILL act in this manner, if we promote the idea that people should and can act in this manner? If you hold up some of the people mentioned by Nutnfancy, as well as others who have done similar acts -- maybe Capt. Phillips of the Maersk Alabama, as examples of real manhood (or womanhood such as the case may be) aren't we likely to get more people to follow in their shoes. Don't military groups indoctrinate their new recruits by teaching them about their heroes of the past in order to instill in them the spirit to follow in their shoes, at least part of the way. While we can never know who might or might not act at the right time, aren't there things that can be done to put more people into the mindset that will encourage them to act at those times? So, in that regard, I like what Nutnfancy is doing in the videos.

I kind of think advocating ideas like this will bring us both more real heroes and more Mittys, and at sometimes I think one person could step up and act, while at other times the same person may not. As

As I said before, I question his advocating the violation of laws restricting the carrying of firearms.

I also question the extent to which he says someone should want to be at the scene of an incident. I think he goes at least a bit far. There are times, such as maybe Flight 93 that Nutnfancy mentions, when the addition of another heroic person is unlikely to raise the chances of a better outcome and will only add to the victim list.

And, I agree with Nighthiker in that many here are probably sheepdogs and the thinking on this forum and others like it will lead to the existence of more.


Edited by Dan_McI (11/12/09 05:16 PM)

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