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#109544 - 10/22/07 09:46 PM Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu !
picard120 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 763
Fire rages around San Diego. 250,000 people are fleeing the area.
Why aren't houses built to be fire proof from the outside? Why can't the walls be made of concrete?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/22/wildfire.ca/index.html

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#109552 - 10/22/07 10:17 PM Re: Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu ! [Re: picard120]
Sherpadog
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: picard120
Fire rages around San Diego. 250,000 people are fleeing the area.
Why aren't houses built to be fire proof from the outside? Why can't the walls be made of concrete?


The same reason cars are not made from armored plating. There is always a balance between practicality and risk....

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#109553 - 10/22/07 10:22 PM Re: Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu ! [Re: picard120]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Concrete will succumb to high enough temperatures and is only fire retardant. Ever read fairy tales of witches living in glass castles? This is a reference to real technology. The formulae hasn't been successfully duplicated, but many ancient fortress were literally fused or welded into one continuous face by superheating the stones for greater strength. California fought a hard fight to eliminate the shake cedar rooftop, mandate brush clearance and promote fire retardant landscapeing. What nobody can stop is 'development' on scale with the cancer cell in ever farther and often difficult areas to reach, a finite water resource system farther behind than the much lamented gasoline refineries doubly crippled by extended drought conditions. I watched the canadian Superscoopers pass overhead making near tree level drops. There are 3 in the whole world with a 4th hanger queen for parts. We get them from Oct to Dec. The local enterprise out of Van Nuys Airport offering 'Mile High Club' flights for couples owns 4 planes and is considering adding a 5th.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (10/22/07 10:25 PM)

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#109619 - 10/23/07 04:06 AM Re: Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu ! [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
I have family in the San Marcos area I believe. Has that area been hit yet?

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#109643 - 10/23/07 08:20 AM Re: Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu ! [Re: Paul810]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Gotta hand it to those pilots. Coolest sights of the day were definitely the Superscooper runs. The DC-10 Supertanker is impressive but disturbing at the same time. Don't think I can ever get used to seeing (what looks like a large passenger plane) flying that low.

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#109670 - 10/23/07 02:03 PM Superscoopers [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
The CL-215, CL-215T and Bombardier 415 are sold in the U.S. under the name of SuperscooperTM aircraft family

The size of the Superscooper family in the U.S. consists of six CL-215 currently operating across the United States, particularly in the northern region and in Alaska. Two of them were purchased by the Sate of Minnesota and one, by the State of North Carolina. Aero Flite, a private operator based in Kingman, Arizona, purchased three CL-215 in 2003. On the lease front, there is a long-term agreement between the Los Angeles County Fire Department and the government of Quebec, Canada for the services of two Bombardier 415.

http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=3_0&lang=en&file=/en/3_0/3_3/3_3_0.html

It takes only 12 seconds, travelling at 130 km/h (70 knots) to scoop up the 6137-litre (1621-US gallon) water load. This requires an on-water distance of only 410 metres (1350 feet). The Bombardier 415 can scoop water from sites as shallow as 2 metres (6.5 feet) and 90 metres (300 feet) wide. This means that a great number of water sites can be used to reload its tanks. The aircraft doesn't need a completely straight scooping path. Since it's still in "flying" mode while scooping, the pilots can maneuver the Bombardier 415 around river bends or avoid visible obstacles in the water. As well, if the water site is too small for a full pick-up, the Bombardier 415 can take a partial load and return to the fire.




http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=3_0&lang=en&file=/en/3_0/3_3/3_3_0.html

Firefighting foam is one of the newer technologies to be introduced into the world of both urban and wildland firefighting. Class "A" firefighting foam, as it is more commonly known, is designed to be mixed with water to produce a very effective fire suppressant. Foam has the following characteristics:

It improves the drop pattern. The mixture of foam and water expands and doubles the drop area.

It protects unburned vegetation and structures. It increases moisture penetration, creates an air barrier and reflects radiant heat. It also clings to tree and structure surfaces providing additional protection. The foam drop can easily be seen from air enabling pilots to maximize coverage.

It suppresses flame. Foam is used directly on the fire reducing flame height and intensity thus making it safer for ground crews. As well, foam tends to reduce smoke, making it safer for other firefighting aircraft to operate in the area.

It is economical to use. The concentrated foam chemical is carried in the Bombardier 415 in one or two 300-litre (80-gallon) reservoirs. When used, it is injected into the water load at a ratio of 0.3% to 0.6% by volume. Using a 0.4% concentration, wich is typicaly used in firefighting, a 6000-litre (1585-gallon) water load requires only 24 litres (6.4-gallons) of foam concentrate. Foam is inexpensive compared to the cost of dropping an equivalent quantity of long-term retardant (red slush commonly used as a fire barrier).

_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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#109683 - 10/23/07 03:03 PM Re: Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu ! [Re: LED]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
The DC-10 Supertanker is impressive but disturbing at the same time. Don't think I can ever get used to seeing (what looks like a large passenger plane) flying that low.


If you've ever witnessed an Avro Vulcan heavy bomber doing aerobatics at low level !!! crazy cool


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#109689 - 10/23/07 03:23 PM Re: Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu ! [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
WScott Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Florida
...with the bomb bay doors open, of course.

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#109692 - 10/23/07 03:36 PM Re: Fire rages around San Diego, Malibu ! [Re: WScott]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
You can forget your Eurofighters, Su-31s, F15s, Tordano's or F22 Raptors the star of the air shows is once again the Vulcan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdKKrvWYQkI



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#109735 - 10/23/07 06:29 PM Re: Superscoopers [Re: Stu]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...pilots can maneuver the Bombardier 415 around river bends or avoid visible obstacles in the water..."

Not with me on board, I would worry too much about digging a wingtip in, floats or no floats...
_________________________
OBG

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