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#265268 - 11/22/13 05:08 PM Beginner First Aid
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574

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#265270 - 11/22/13 08:12 PM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Good article, but it could have been a lot shorter y simply stating "Get trained in first aid and CPR." I really think this should be a requirement for high school graduation.
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#265676 - 12/13/13 02:20 AM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
CPR is useful, but not terribly effective; I think First Aid saves more people overall.

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#265681 - 12/13/13 04:10 AM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The best figure I have heard is about a 30% save rate. A lot depends upon your definition of "success." When it comes to saves, I am 0 for 2, but I comfortable that at least I was able to make a positive effort, and I'll bet the relatives appreciated that,as well. I am in favor of extensive training in both CPR and at least rudimentary first aid.

We had an incident some years ago where a hunter shot himself in the thigh. He bled to death before rescue people arrived on scene, finding that the only first aid his companions had rendered was to loosen his belt (!)
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#265683 - 12/13/13 05:23 AM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: TeacherRO]
Phaedrus Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Recently I read about a cop that shot himself in the leg with his Glock while in his patrol car. Apparently he had been fiddling with his firearm for whatever reason. When he attempted to re-holster it he had an ND and was struck in the leg. Despite being able to radio it in instantly he died of blood loss before help could arrive. My guess is that he hit the femoral. It really goes to show that if you carry a gun you probably should also care a TQ and know how to use it.

I have a FAK with me a lot of the time, but not all of the time. I suppose I really should pack a kit in my truck, but in my own defense I do so when I'm traveling out of town.

Another note: Most of the time I do carry a gun, so I should take my own advice and add a TQ to my vehicle kit. I don't anticipate carrying one on my person at all times, though.
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#265689 - 12/13/13 01:41 PM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: Phaedrus]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Triangle bandage can make a pretty good TQ.
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#265691 - 12/13/13 01:49 PM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: TeacherRO]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Getting a high femoral/inguinal hit is pretty much difficult to stop, period. A TQ won't go there, and if you're trying to apply your own pressure, you'll probably not succeed.

I have a TQ in my range bag after my buddy nearly shot his leg doing holster draws (PSA: if you own a SIG, de-cock it before re-holstering).

CPR success rates of 30% are, IIRC, in-hospital only. Closer to 5-10% traditionally in the street. Highly dependent on time to CPR and first shock. Some of the "push only" CPR rates look better, but time will tell.

Beginner first aid:
Air goes in and out, blood goes round and round. Change either and you're in trouble.

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#265694 - 12/13/13 02:01 PM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
the State of Florida is a shall issue state, and I'm one of the first 5000 carry permits... I carry my fullsize pistol off body, and it is not charged as it doesn't ride in a dedicated holster... but in addition, the trauma supplies ride in the outside pocket.... 4" Israeli compression bandage, CAT tourniquet, QuickClot, Kerlix, petroleum gauze, duct tape, irrigation syringe, gloves and cleanup towelette


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#265695 - 12/13/13 03:07 PM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: TeacherRO]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I notice alot of pooh poohing CPR success rates (defn when the patient is actually discharged from the hospital following CPR). Seattle success rate is greater than 50%. It appears to be dependent on a chain of factors most of which can be taught, but in particular minimizing interruptions in chest compression.

We invite other locations to take a stab at exceeding our mark...

CPR works. A lot. Even most of the time! ��

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#265696 - 12/13/13 03:12 PM Re: Beginner First Aid [Re: MDinana]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: MDinana

CPR success rates of 30% are, IIRC, in-hospital only. Closer to 5-10% traditionally in the street. Highly dependent on time to CPR and first shock. Some of the "push only" CPR rates look better, but time will tell.



The 30% figure is in my head from a project in Seattle in the early 80's where there was a push to qualify everyone in basic CPR - undoubtedly that represents a very best case scenario.

On the other hand,my CERT trainer, a very experienced fire captain, stated that he witnessed about 300 cases where CPR was administered; in his opinion, only about seven were successful; i.e., the patient walked out of the hospital after treatment. That is probably more realistic.

Current CERT training for a mass casualty situation is to dispense with CPR - more lives will be saved if the effort is devoted to other victims. But that is a different situation from the more normal situation where help is available.

Elapsed time does seem to be critical in achieving a good outcome, which is why CPR training is desirable and recommended
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