My sister and I were talking today about preparedness, of course because of NOLA. I have been contemplating purchasing pocket size 357’s, 22’s single shot 410’s bla, bla, bla for my immediate family so that in the event of an NOLA type situation they could at least keep what they have.

My sister made a great point however. (Please don’t bring the PC thing into this) As a woman she pointed out that she would have a really hard time pulling the trigger. Not to say that I wouldn’t but I think we all know the reality of the gender difference. She said that she would much rather have a bear pepper spray that would virtually incapacitate many people in a close range situation and have no regrets. (She also said she appreciates the fact that her husband carries) I think this is great! It would allow a woman or man for that matter to take the first “shot” without having to weigh the consequences of potential murder charges. I would be much more willing to spray an assailant with pepper and probably avoid all problems immediately rather than risking the consequences of a gun shot. Don’t get me wrong the .44 is in the bag but I really think the bear spray is a great idea of first line of defense for urban survival.

What does your little sister think?

Cameron

I don't have a little sister (and I'm no expert), but I'd like to point out that OC spray only gives you some time. Enough time to get a head start running, but make sure you think through the "what next" part. This makes it a particularly poor choice for the elderly for example - IMO.

Also, make sure you select a quality OC and understand spray patterns and select one that is approprate. I understand the Fox Labs spray is good and think a 2oz size is a good tradeoff of size vs capacity. Their "flip top" lid version prevents accidental activation.

Typical spray patterns are stream, cone and foam. Stream goes the farthest, but is harder to hit the target. Foam is for indoor use since otherwise it could get the user as much as the assailant. Cone is in between and probably the best compromise.

I'd also be fairly leary of using it against crowds. The problem is as I was saying is that it only buys you time. Some folks are less prone to it as well. The chances you hit everyone is pretty low. You add up all the things that can go wrong and the chances are that at least one person isn't going to be incapacitated for one reason or another and they are going to grab you. The other downside is that being sprayed isn't going to improve their mood any.

Another option to consider is a collapable baton, like the Monadnock Autolock. Perhaps in conjunction with the OC spray. I haven't handled the Monadnock Autolock, but I have the ASP batons and didn't realize they rattled - a serious drawback IMO. The Autolock shouldn't have that problem. 21/22" is a pretty good compromise between concealability and useful length. It would be nice to have something more like 26", but it's probably not going to be as easy to conceal.

In any case, you are going to want to pursue training, and I have no idea about the legal issues in your area.

For example, in WA, the way I understand things (and I'm NOT a lawyer!), you are probably OK to carry a baton as long as you don't use it to intimidate anyone. So, whipping it out casually wouldn't be OK, but keeping it hidden, and only deploying it if you were attacked probably is fine. Did I mention I'm not a lawyer? And of course in many places, it's pretty much illegal to defend yourself in any way.

And of course, it sounds like you can expect to be sued in any case.

-john

I carry some while running but only for protection against dogs. Remember, some people have a higher tolerance for pain than others. You may incapacitate one slimeball but the next one might only be enraged enough to throttle you. It is certaintly better than nothing however.

Regards, Vince

I'm certainly no defensive firearms expert, but I have done some reading ... while contemplating keep in mind that the 22 rifles/pistols and 410 shotguns simply do not have sufficient stopping power.

Even higher powered rifles offer an aiming disadvantage.

For home protection, everything I've read says to get a 12 guage pump-action shotgun and load it with #1 buckshot.

With that says, I agree with your sister. For many of us the thought of blasting away another human being boggles the mind. While I have no doubt that I could do it to truely protect myself or my family, not having been in that situation, it would be hard to know when to pull the trigger.

Does anyone know the legalities of defensive use of firearms? It seems that I've read you can't shoot someone simply to defend your property - it had to be for protection of life. Do they have to be INSIDE my home before I can pull the trigger?

Yeah. I've heard this from men and women. What she really means is that she can't, sitting in a familiar environment with the lights on and no obvious threat, imagine a situation in which should could kill. I have a feeling she'd react differently if, say, a child or a family member were in danger.

This is a good point! Sure sure we all know that OC is not a reliable as a firearm for defense, HOWEVER that only applies if youre willing to pull the trigger without a second thought. If youre going to hesitate with a lethal weapon and not going to hesitate with a non-lethal weapon then non-lethal is probably the way to go particularly for those that are not constantly training for lethal encounters (and weekends at the shooting range are not what I consider training for lethal encounters). This is an excellent point that you've brought up. I hope it makes us all think about our situations and those of the people we care about. Thanks for the enlightenment.

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My little sister aint so little and also a former Marine. And also from reports, all private citizen, non-LE, Militarty, security, etc. weapons are being confiscated. Nuff said.

Agreed. Get OC spray made for use on humans. If you are worried about size, Fox Labs maxes some huge ones:

http://www.foxlabs.com/Products.html

-john

I'm not a lawyer....that said....I've lived in NYC. I live in Florida. In NYC you couldn't even carry 'pepper spray' legally. In Florida (technically) you need the Concealed Weapons Carry Permit (even if you never plan on carrying a firearm) just to carry the pepper spray. The laws are so specific that if you have any questions about what you can and can not carry...check your local laws. I'd start with a Gun Shop....they usually have a general starting idea of some of the things you can do.

I'll come out of lurker status to suggest your sister obtain some training which focuses on the very moral, ethical and legal issues which concern her.

My experiences were through FrontSight though I'm sure there are others cheaper, closer, etc. Training there emphasizes that you are the actual weapon and, as such, it is your mind which needs trained and honed.

I will confess that I entered training somewhat plagued with testosterone poisoning. I've left what I've had thus far realizing how far I've yet to go before I feel comfortable with a defensive firearm.

Latvija