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#29374 - 07/22/04 06:25 PM 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
On Page 318 (yes, I read fast) aka Page 41 of section 9

"Preparedness of Invidual Civilians. One clear lesson of September 11 is that individual civilians need to take responsibility for maximizing the probability that they will survive, should disaster strike. Clearly, many building occupants in the World Trade Center did not take preparedness seriously. Individuals should know the exact location of every stairwell in their workplace. In addition, they should have access at all times to flashlights, which were deemed invaluable by some civilians who managed to evacuate the WTC on September 11. "
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#29375 - 07/22/04 10:19 PM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
No joke. In an urban situation a flashlight and whistle are 2 of your best chances for getting OUT.

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#29376 - 07/22/04 10:54 PM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
joblot Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 258
Loc: Scotland
Whilst I agree with the statement you quoted, I think it is also a disgrace that the employers did not ensure the safey of thier staff with fire drills and training courses.
I agree everybody in theory should be eqipped to deal with emergencies. However, the reality is sadly different, that is why there are trained first aiders in every workplace and (at least on this side of the Atlantic) instruction on fire fighting equipment and evacuation proceedures.
To put the onus of responsiblity purely on the individual, is letting the employer get away with murder.

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#29377 - 07/23/04 12:39 AM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Actually the praised the evac procedures at MOST companies, to the point it went. Our typical fire drill here, in any building, has people go to the lobby, and call fire command - it's the part after that were stuff broke down. If you just want to know what happened that day in the WTC and Pentigon, just read section 9
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#29378 - 07/23/04 07:32 AM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
dave750gixer Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 60
Loc: UK
I'm also on the correct side of the pond <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> We have first aid kits and fire extinguishers everywhere, people trained in their use and practice evacuation drills. Safety inspections once a week and people checking if fire exits are clear of obstructions. etc etc Under UK law safety is the responsibility of everyone. We have just been taked over by an American based multinational. Company policy for them is that safety is the responsibility of management. Vastly different approach.

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#29379 - 07/23/04 03:21 PM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
DaveT Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 208
Loc: NE Ohio
Hi Joblot - not to get them completely off the hook, but companies in the WTC did take quite a few steps. I worked in the WTC several months after the 1993 bombing (and left several years before 9/11). Many things were revamped and changed from the first bombing. Co-workers told of hearing no instructions because the public address safety system didn't work, and creeping down the smoky stairwells in near-total darkness, helping elderly/handicapped folks who couldn't walk down on their own.
After the '93 attack, a beefed-up PA system was installed, glow-in-the-dark strips and arrows were placed throughout the stairwell (every step). Security in the lobby kept non-employees from entering the elevators (except those going to the observation deck/Windows on the World). Co-workers told me that prior to that, tourists would sometimes wander around, and homeless people would sleep in some lobbies.
When I worked there, fire drills were a regular event - timed to see how long it took everyone to get up from their desks and walk to line up in the hallway (the idea being that the building's PA system would direct everyone on what they should do).
Now, that said, few people took fire drills seriously - they were a routine hassle for most people. Also, the WTC was a huge building, and right across the street was a fire station. Every day, several times a day, firefighters were entering the lobby, going up in the elevators with all their gear to check out false alarms. Someone smelled a funny smell, someone thought they smelled smoke, and it wasn't uncommon for fire alarms to go off errantly.
So, fire drills and false alarms were seen by many as a hassle, and when the alarms would go off, most didn't bother to stir from their desks, but would wait for the PA system to kick in and say it was a false alarm, return to your desks (I admit to doing this, too. Also, I didn't know where alternate stairwells were - stairwells were avoided because re-entry was locked except for certain floors, and because the elevators were so fast).
Reports I read said that, among other things, the PA system was knocked out. Some people who called 911 or building services were told to return to their desks. Others never considered it to be of concern to them - along the lines of another false fire alarm, etc. A lot of people never got their head around the idea that what was happening in another building/on another floor was a direct threat to them.
That said, others took threats very seriously - just read a very interesting book about Rick Rescorla (mentioned in the book "We Were Soldiers Once, and Young").
This book, "Heart of a Soldier," tells about Rescorla's military career and how he went on to become head of security for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.
Rick Rescorla site
He had a very good handle (almost prophetic) on the threats that faced the WTC, and was able to evacuate several thousand of the firm's employees, although he and several others died in the building's collapse (he went back into the building to look for some missing employees).
So yes, there were more things that the companies could have done, but with the notable exception of a very few people, no one "in charge" grasped the potential threat would be much different from what had already been faced, and many employees were habituated to treat safety procedures/lectures as a waste of time and a joke.
My two cents
Dave


Edited by DaveT (07/23/04 03:53 PM)

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#29380 - 07/26/04 02:23 AM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
THIRDPIG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 81
Dave t,great post.I'm a firefighter in an "upstate" city and when we go to fire drills in our highrises,I always say its the smokers who get out first and thats only so they can light up!!

Most have no idea that there are stairways with smoke ejectors in them and those are the ones they should use.See the idea is we fight the fire from the other stairways leaving open the smoketower ones for you folks.

Also you can tell right away the buildings that take this serious. They have the glow in the dark stair stripes along with arrows,floor numbers all that glow for 30 minutes after the lights go out.These same places often also have glow sticks mounted by each door for more time.

Hell most people don't even know that the stairwell doors are locked from the stairwell side so that once they enter they can only get out at ground floors.

Blows my mind that people can work in these buildings and not know much about how to get out...

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#29381 - 07/27/04 02:24 AM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
Anonymous
Unregistered


I worki in a small office, three people, on the ground floor, and we still have fire drills. It helped one day when an office above us had a copier choke on some paper and smoke us out. The flashlight on my keychain helped, too.

I wonder how many people skip out of work when they know there will be a fire drill?

Rena


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (07/27/04 05:02 AM)

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#29382 - 07/28/04 06:49 PM Re: 9/11 report - a survival note for civilians
Craig Offline


Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 1784
Loc: Collegeville, PA, USA
I agree. But most people don't even bother with Photon Microlights.

When a light is tiny, inobtrusive, and inexpensive, what's the excuse for not carrying one?

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