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#240014 - 01/24/12 09:11 PM Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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#240031 - 01/25/12 12:12 AM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: ireckon]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Relatively small avalanche and he wasn't buried too deep, but he was definitely not getting out without help. He was totally immobilized within seconds . Great video.
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#240086 - 01/25/12 06:49 PM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: ireckon]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
The recommendation at the end was to "buy, carry, and learn how to use an avalanche beacon."

OK, but what's more important is my buddies. This video proves to me that, unless I have buddies right there, an avalanche beacon provides nothing more than a false sense of security.

Not only should I have buddies, but the buddies need to be educated on how to respond to an avalanche. In this case, for example, if the buddies had not seen where the friend got covered, then the beacons would have been necessary.
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#240088 - 01/25/12 07:01 PM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: ireckon]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ireckon
However, this video proves to me that an avalanche beacon provides little more than a false sense of security. I will not be buying an avalanche beacon thinking it will help save my life! Not only should I have buddies, but the buddies need to be educated on how to respond to an avalanche. Buddies seem to be the only realistic means for surviving an avalanche.


Without buddies or other rescuers near to hand, an avalanche beacon is useless. However, if rescuers don't know exactly where you're buried, the avalanche beacon might save your life.

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#240089 - 01/25/12 07:02 PM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: ireckon]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1177
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Yes, a buddy system is the way forward.

The beacon is one way buddies find you.

All need a shovel, probe, training too.

Cautionary observation and testing of snow and terrain prior to
travel through a snowy area is another crucial part of staying
safe.

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#240090 - 01/25/12 07:06 PM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: clearwater]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
This sounds thick-headed, but I always imagined I would be able to get out of a relatively light covering like this guy had here. No way! This guy was immobilized like he was wedged tightly under a 5 ton boulder. My mindset has changed.
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#240096 - 01/25/12 08:12 PM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: ireckon]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Wow! It almost looks .... I don't know. Not what I expected at all. Quick. Quiet. Small. I always think of avalanches as big. Very big. That landscape looks pretty benign. I guess it's hard to gauge the slope from a video but this has definitely changed my thinking. I'd be even more cautious should the chance to go on a snow machine reappear now.
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#240097 - 01/25/12 09:02 PM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: bacpacjac]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
As a pedagogic measure I point to the nearest parking lot that has been cleared of snow. Usually that snow is lumped together in a huge heap of snow. I say: "Imagine being buried in something like that".

If you say, "nah, that heap of snow is 2 weeks old, that heap of ice has nothing to do with fresh avalanches". I say: Go visit the same parking lot after a snow fall, watch the machines clear the parking lot and see what the fresh, newly fallen snow looks like after it's been tumbled around and tossed into a huge pile. Imagine you're in that pile of freshly cleared snow...

Many avalanches occur in SMALL ravines and creecks with steep river banks. These can accumulate surprising amounts of snow when it's blowing. Because those banks are small no one supects they can be dangerous. The snow also disguises how steep that canyon or river bank really is. Which is why people get killed there.

With the increased popularity of off-piste skiing we've seen an increase in the number of skiers being caught in avalanches, often with fatal results.

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#240101 - 01/25/12 09:39 PM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: ireckon]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
A couple of comments, in no particular order:

1. Yes, even very small avalanches can kill you. Big ones just kill you more easily.

2. While occaisionally people are caught in natural releases, the vast majority of the time the avalanche that gets you is triggered by you or a member of your group. That is true in this case, and statistics indicate that is true overall.

3. Good travel protocall is that only one person is exposed at a time. Do not do what this guy did. Do not wait under a slope while someone else travels above you. This guy did, and almost paid the price. Keep spaced out except when on totally mellow terrain. If someone gets stuck on a slope, they must dig themselves out. If you go to help, you are more likely to trigger a slide (see #5 below), and two of you can be buried.

4. Wear a beacon! Carry your rescue gear (shovel and probe) on your person, not strapped to your machine. When caught in a slide you can never be sure who/what will remain on the surface. Imagine if you manage to stay on top but your machine and your buddy are both buried. Without a shovel, you will have little hope of digging him out in time, even if you locate him with a beacon. YOU ARE THE RESCUE TEAM. Going for help means going for help to recover the body.

5. Snow machiners can be at greater risk than skiiers and climbers. This is due to several factors.
  • More weight means more stress on the snow pack. The weight of a rider and machine may trigger a slope that a single skiier alone might not.
  • More weight can trigger deeper layers, making a bigger more dangerous slide.
  • Subtle clues ("whumping sounds", "shooting cracks", changes in snow texture, etc) are harder to see when traveling fast on a machne.

6. Trauma can kill you as dead as suffocation. A slide can carry you into/over/through trees or boulders. Big slides can knock down mature forests. Imagine what they could do to you?

7. Always carry rescue gear (#4 above) but remember that not getting caught is vastly better than getting rescued. Get some training. Learn to evaluate conditions. Practice good travel protocal.

8. Remember that even experts make mistakes. Be conservative!

Have fun, but be safe. smile
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#240113 - 01/26/12 03:31 AM Re: Video: snowmobiler dug out of avalanche [Re: ireckon]
speedemon Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 98
There's already been one person killed on a snowmobile here in CO, can't remember the details (article linked to in this page: http://avalanche.state.co.us/acc/acc_report.php?accfm=rep&acc_id=434 had a few details), but it's still early.
Several deaths so far in the state, one was by a slide of only 60 ft if I recall correctly. Its a shame more people don't check the forecasts, quite a few people could still be alive if they would simply listen to the warnings and avoid avalanche terrain when necessary.


Edited by speedemon (01/26/12 03:32 AM)

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