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#240267 - 01/30/12 02:57 PM Yet Another Rainier Rescue
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Yet Another Rainier Rescue

This illustrates a couple of points being made in current threads. Rainier is having quite a winter
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#240268 - 01/30/12 03:31 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Good story. They could have been better equipped, but they had the gray matter and did the right things in the moment. As the comments (those not blindly critical) indicated, they cost nothing to rescue because nobody was looking for them -- basic self rescue.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
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#240274 - 01/30/12 05:41 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: hikermor]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Great story, glad they made it but... talk about a landnav fail. Jeez.

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#240282 - 01/30/12 07:38 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Great story, glad they made it but... talk about a landnav fail.


Not a landnav failure. A dig in before you get completely disoriented-failure.

I've heard plenty of time that the single mistake people make when they need to make emergency shelters is that they didn't make it sooner. I have no statistics to back it up, but it makes sense: Buzzing around using your gut feeling as only navigation aid in zero visibility will get you anywhere except where you should be...


I guess I'm not the only one in here that has enjoyed Gonzales book "Deep survival". He says that survivors often experiences a balancing act between rational thoughts and primitive fear. Most fascinating is that many survivors are consciously aware that the situation may very well slip out of control if they don't actively maintain that delicate balance - a conscious mental struggle not to loose it:

Originally Posted By: Johnson

she never shared her fear.

“I knew if I mentioned my fear or my insecurity that the situation would go downhill even faster,” said. “So I kept my fear to myself.”

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#240284 - 01/30/12 07:51 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Not a landnav failure. A dig in before you get completely disoriented-failure.... Buzzing around using your gut feeling as only navigation aid in zero visibility will get you anywhere except where you should be...


Well, the only thing we have to go on is the linked story. Based on that:

"At first light on Jan. 15, they peeked outside only to realize visibility wasn’t any better.

They thought they were in the Edith Creek basin and that following it would lead them close to the Paradise parking lot.

They were actually in the Stevens Creek canyon, which descends farther east of Paradise to the Stevens Canyon Road, which was closed for the winter.

Unaware of the mistake, they kept going."


So on the 2nd day, they started out at first light. But by (apparently) not having a paper map, and not using their GPS to give point position on said map, they were in gross landnav error. This error is what caused them to need to shelter for the 2nd night. It also looks like he hadn't recorded a waypoint at their car. If he had that waypoint, just with the GPS he would know the straightline distance and direction to the right parking lot.

Woulda/coulda/shoulda, I know, but when a guy intentionally goes in with a GPS and no map (especially around Rainier in winter) then can't leverage his GPS without its electronic map, it's a landnav fail.

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#240285 - 01/30/12 07:55 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I agree with the LandNav fail angle. Even with a GPS without a map loaded, he still had a GPS with which he could have added waypoints (where the car is parked, trail head, turn point 1, turn point 2, snowhoer fell HERE, Snowcave 1, Snowcave 2, ...). Instead he complained that the GPS had no map. That was a fail. Without a map in your GPS, you still have a GPS, use it wisely.

That said, they spent two nights on Mt Rainier in pretty bad conditions when prepared for a dayhike. Overall, not a failure at all.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
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#240286 - 01/30/12 07:59 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: Russ]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Russ
That said, they spent two nights on Mt Rainier in pretty bad conditions when prepared for a dayhike. Overall, not a failure at all.


Agreed, I'm not saying they're losers or Darwin candidates, I don't feel that way about it. It's just terrible that they went through such anguish when the tools to avoid much of it were right there in their hands, literally.

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#240287 - 01/30/12 08:10 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo

Woulda/coulda/shoulda, I know, but when a guy intentionally goes in with a GPS and no map (especially around Rainier in winter) it's a landnav fail.


Agreed - THAT is a major fail, thanks for pointing that out.

But if they'd stopped sooner they would have been closer to their last known position. That is kind of helpful when visibility improves and you're trying to figure out where the heck you are.

Anyway - solely relying on GPS is not good. And when you do have a GPS you should use it to it's full capabilities, such as adding waypoints frequently.

But fiddling with a GPS is NOT funny in a blizzard. Not all GPS can be used with heavy mittens (big buttons). And the best GPS in the world is no use if you can't take it out of your pocket because it's a freeking crazy blizzard and you don't want to loose your mitten or freeze your hand off while fiddling with that pocket zipper and those tiny buttons. Not to mention the fact that many screens will get sluggish and unresponsive at low temperatures.

Anyway, the couple did EXTREMELY well under the circumstances, digging in and keeping their spirits up. Big kudos!


Failures: Not leaving a game plan, no paper map (and no compass??). I'm also tempted to add "relying on untested/unfamiliar technology" with regards to the GPS thingy, but I haven't the facts to back up my gut feeling.

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#240289 - 01/30/12 08:37 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
You and I are on the same page. I currently have two Garmin GPS receivers for "off-road" use: a GPSMAP 60CSx and a ForeTrex 301.

My 60CSx has road maps for the entire USA and Topo maps for the western states. But for arguments sake if I only had the ForeTrex 301 on this hike (it being a non-mapping GPS) I would have loaded it with waypoints before leaving home. First, both receivers use the same basic Mapsource software so any waypoints I had from previous hikes on Mt Rainier could have been loaded into the ForeTrex. As soon as I parked the car I would have "mark"d the cars location for one additional and very relevant waypoint.

In order to give perspective to the display, I'd have added waypoints for certain landmarks such as "Mt Rainier", "Camp Muir" and knowing me if I hiked Mt Rainier a lot "Panorama Point" would already have been in the waypoint list. Put enough waypoint context on a non-mapping GPS and you soon have something that starts to resemble a map, with a big "you-are-here" cursor.

The ForeTrex 301 and 401 are great little receivers if used. Otherwise they're just big digital watches with a blank map display.

Then again, I haven't used either of these in blizzard conditions with or without goggles and mittens. not something I yearn to try in SOCAL.

Garmin customer, otherwise not affiliated.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#240291 - 01/30/12 08:48 PM Re: Yet Another Rainier Rescue [Re: Russ]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Russ
You and I are on the same page.


Quite so! My old standby GPS is the Vista HCx, and I recently picked up a ForeTrex 401.

Your GPS strategies are very sound. If one is intimately familiar with the UTM grid system, you can piece together a rough picture in your mind just from the easting/northing values for a few key points.

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