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#232669 - 09/24/11 04:09 PM BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue'
pforeman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 237
Loc: Iowa

Six BWCA fire rangers were forced to rescue themselves
http://www.twincities.com/ci_18961511

From our area here in MN... I wonder if when camping in forest areas it would be a good idea to have such a shelter as part of an emergency kit? Comments / observations?

Paul -

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#232671 - 09/24/11 04:20 PM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: pforeman]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
I think the occasion to use such a shelter would be too rare for the average person to justify carrying one, but a darned good thing to have for a firefighter.

HJ
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#232672 - 09/24/11 04:37 PM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
I think the occasion to use such a shelter would be too rare for the average person to justify carrying one...

I agree. Even in the article, they mention that this was the first time in state history that their rangers have depolyed them. I would also hate for someone to feel falsely confident in going out in dangerous conditions (e.g. a hot, windy day with bone dry vegetation) because they're carrying one.

Then again, even if it's a one in a million thing, it sucks when you're that "one" and you wish you had a fire shelter.

I do remember a story not long ago of a wildland firefighter who was badly burned when he (actually, maybe it was a she) tried to cram herself and two hikers into a one-person shelter when they were overrun by fire.

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#232676 - 09/24/11 05:21 PM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: pforeman]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
The article indicates that the shelters have saved lives "dozens of times". Considering the huge number of firefighters in wilderness areas in most years, that is a small number.

While I do think that every one of those firefights should have one, for the average wilderness traveler they're fairly expensive ($300+) and bulky (~6"x6"x12").

As with most situations that can produce danger, it seems to me that you'd be best off having a What-If mentality, and maintaining vigilance regarding the conditions around you, and then acting accordingly.

And you should also have a good idea on what you should do, and where you should go, if you do find yourself suddenly in a fire area. This is an informative article by the National Wildfire Coordinating Group

Sue

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#232678 - 09/24/11 07:09 PM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: pforeman]
chaosmagnet Online   content
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
A friend of mine who used to be a smoke jumper called these "burn and serve" bags.

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#232694 - 09/25/11 12:31 AM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I have been trained the use of these bags, and they are a very good idea if you happen to be working on a fire. Even then they are a last resort measure, and are far from infallible. Deploying them is a definite indication that someone screwed up.

If you are not working a fire, you should be setting speed records as you depart the area quickly. Bear in mind that a wildfire, when conditions are right, can spread much faster than a human can run, much less walk.
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#232705 - 09/25/11 05:30 AM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: hikermor]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: hikermor
If you are not working a fire, you should be setting speed records as you depart the area quickly. Bear in mind that a wildfire, when conditions are right, can spread much faster than a human can run, much less walk.


I've seen these used on TV, and I agree with the "baked potato" analogy. Better IMHO to have a good fear of the fire and evacuate with all due haste than possibly be overconfident because of my shelter and perish as a result. Lack of civilian training and recertification would be a liability as well.

Having never been close to a wildfire I have to admit I know nothing about safe evacuation strategies. Obviously I would head away from the fire, but do you try to move perpendicular in the hope it sweeps behind you or head downwind and try to outrun it? Is downhill or uphill a better choice? I would have thought that heading for a large body of water would provide safety, but apparently not for these firefighters.
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#232710 - 09/25/11 08:03 AM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: Mark_M]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
One of the things that a well managed crew on a fireline is well aware of is their escape route(s). Fires can flare up, the wind can change in both direction and intensity, and you may need to bug out fast. One of the better options in to get into the burned area. You will be safe there.

Don't tr and outrun a fire, especially uphill. Anytime you are uphill from a wild fire, especially in steep gullies or canyons, you are in a precarious position. Those canyons act as chimneys and the fire can flash upwards at incredible speeds.

In high winds, realistically there is no such a thing as a secure fireline. high winds can throw burning embers a mile or two ahead of the main fire, igniting secondary blazes which can spread rapidly.

Unless you engaged in fire suppression, you don't want to be anywhere near a burn. Smoke and ash render the locale vastly unpleasant, anyway. The biggest issue is getting reliable information on the location of the fire and its projected path. One of the most important variables is wind speed and direction.

This is one reason authorities will close parks or forests to public entry during times of high fire danger, even without a going fire. Respect those closures.
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#232719 - 09/25/11 03:35 PM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: pforeman]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Great tool if you are fighting fire - otherwise no.

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#232742 - 09/25/11 11:56 PM Re: BWCA Fire & Ranger 'self-rescue' [Re: Mark_M]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Quote:
Mark M: I would have thought that heading for a large body of water would provide safety, but apparently not for these firefighters.


I think most people only think of the actual fire, which may be why they wait too long to leave. But when burning embers are blowing ahead of the fire, it's a different problem to deal with.

Quote:
One of the things that a well managed crew on a fireline is well aware of is their escape route(s).


EVERYONE hiking should know their escape routes. It isn't enough to just know where you are and your destination. Conditions change.

Sue

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