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#158606 - 12/16/08 06:54 PM recommend an FRS radio
username_5 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 54
Hi, first post to this forum.

Several years ago I purchased a pair of FRS radios rated to have a 3 mile range and they were awesome. Worked well beyond that range. Stuff happened and I had to replace them. I replaced them with a pair rated for a 7 mile range and they were terrible. Even a mile away on flat terrain they didn't work.

I now find myself looking for another pair or more of FRS radios and would like the maximum effective distance and realize I can't count on the distance the package says for anything.

I would love a pair to be priced under $50, but that isn't mandatory (just gives you an idea of my budget). My concerns are maximum distance they are effective and battery life.

Help a brother out?

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#158609 - 12/16/08 07:22 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: ]
username_5 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 54
I hear ya, but the thing is I bought a cheapie pair from Wal-Mart years ago rated for 3 miles and they were the bomb.

Since then I have purchased slightly pricier models with ranges twice that or better and they sucked. This is in the same terrain.

There have got to be some inexpensive FRS radios out there with a 'true' range of at least a few miles?

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#158617 - 12/16/08 08:50 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: ]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Are you sure that the first radios were FRS and not GMRS?

GMRS radios will transmit 5 watts vs .5 watts for the FRS.

Either way, if you need something to reliably communicate over distances of a mile or more in varied terrain, you're not gonna be happy with FRS.

Regardless of any marketing claims, FRS radios are limited by several things, power output and antennaes. It is illegal to transmit more than .5 watts and it is illegal to use an external antenna on an FRS radio. Might be silly but facts is facts. FRS was never meant for long distance work. Midland can claim any sort of range they wish as can Kenwood or Cobra but the reality is that FRS radios are simply not meant to do what a lot of people wish them to be able to do.

Having said that, I have a pair myself and will be getting another pair for myself for Christmas. They're handy for short distance communication, ie, on 4wd trails, events with kids running around, etc. For anything else, I use my Ham equipment.

John E
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#158631 - 12/16/08 10:00 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: username_5]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
The FCC requires a license to use GMRS radios. You file online, pay a small fee (I've forgotten the amount), and you have a family-wide license good for five years.

Old-time GMRS radios transmitted at 5W. I'm not aware of any GMRS-only radios now on the market, so if anyone can clue me, I'd be eternally grateful for fifteen minutes. GMRS radios usually have a half-way decent antenna on a BNC connection - you can take that antenna off and put on a good whip or connect to a magmount or other external antenna. You'll get some miles range out of a 5W GMRS with a good antenna.

Many radios today are combination FRS/GMRS, which has ruined GMRS because nobody gets a license and everybody is now using GMRS as if it were FRS. Combo radios have crippled antennas that cannot be removed; they transmit at a max of 2W on the GMRS frequencies and a half-watt on FRS. You'll get a range of several blocks in urban environments with 2W GMRS. I've never measured our range at Burning Man, where it's flat dirt for hundreds of miles, but we cover every distance apart we've been. Two watts is my minimum for communications I want to have.

FRS-only radios are also required to have non-removable antennas and transmit at a half watt. Any mileage ranges advertised are marketing horse manure. A block or two in a city is pretty much it. A half-watt at Burning Man reaches pretty far - so many people are on FRS, though, that all channels (even with CTCSS) are unusable.

I've bought cheap radios, ham, GMRS, and FRS, and _generally_ I got what I paid for. I have a drawer full of junk FRS radios that I give out at festivals and events to volunteers, hoping I get them back, but who really cares. I have had good luck with the Cobra and Midland FRS and GMRS radios that I've bought, but if you buy their cheap stuff, cheap stuff you'll get.

There's a place for cheap stuff, of course. That's why I've got a drawer full to hand out to volunteers. When they fail, I just give the volunteer another one and put the dead one in the recycle bin. If you can afford to have failures, go with a few cheap ones, especially if there's a high chance of loss or breakage and you have backups on hand.

I realize you're asking for FRS, but let me make couple of suggestions since you want range. Check to see if you have GMRS repeaters in your area. They make a _big_ difference in range. Also check how many ham repeaters there are. We can hit repeaters miles and miles away, and they give us more miles and miles range from their high locations, 25 or 30 watts, and big antennas. If you have GMRS repeaters, check into getting license and permission to use them (you'll need repeater-capable GMRS radios - I've got a Motorola T-7200). If there are ham repeaters, get your amateur license - no Morse code required anymore. Get a couple of 5W handhelds, and you're good to go. Then volunteer for events and learn to use your radio. :-)

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#158663 - 12/17/08 12:57 AM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: philip]
SJC Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Detroit
Originally Posted By: philip
The FCC requires a license to use GMRS radios. You file online, pay a small fee (I've forgotten the amount), and you have a family-wide license good for five years.

Old-time GMRS radios transmitted at 5W. I'm not aware of any GMRS-only radios now on the market, so if anyone can clue me, I'd be eternally grateful for fifteen minutes. GMRS radios usually have a half-way decent antenna on a BNC connection - you can take that antenna off and put on a good whip or connect to a magmount or other external antenna. You'll get some miles range out of a 5W GMRS with a good antenna.

Many radios today are combination FRS/GMRS, which has ruined GMRS because nobody gets a license and everybody is now using GMRS as if it were FRS. Combo radios have crippled antennas that cannot be removed; they transmit at a max of 2W on the GMRS frequencies and a half-watt on FRS. You'll get a range of several blocks in urban environments with 2W GMRS. I've never measured our range at Burning Man, where it's flat dirt for hundreds of miles, but we cover every distance apart we've been. Two watts is my minimum for communications I want to have.

FRS-only radios are also required to have non-removable antennas and transmit at a half watt. Any mileage ranges advertised are marketing horse manure. A block or two in a city is pretty much it. A half-watt at Burning Man reaches pretty far - so many people are on FRS, though, that all channels (even with CTCSS) are unusable.

I've bought cheap radios, ham, GMRS, and FRS, and _generally_ I got what I paid for. I have a drawer full of junk FRS radios that I give out at festivals and events to volunteers, hoping I get them back, but who really cares. I have had good luck with the Cobra and Midland FRS and GMRS radios that I've bought, but if you buy their cheap stuff, cheap stuff you'll get.

There's a place for cheap stuff, of course. That's why I've got a drawer full to hand out to volunteers. When they fail, I just give the volunteer another one and put the dead one in the recycle bin. If you can afford to have failures, go with a few cheap ones, especially if there's a high chance of loss or breakage and you have backups on hand.

I realize you're asking for FRS, but let me make couple of suggestions since you want range. Check to see if you have GMRS repeaters in your area. They make a _big_ difference in range. Also check how many ham repeaters there are. We can hit repeaters miles and miles away, and they give us more miles and miles range from their high locations, 25 or 30 watts, and big antennas. If you have GMRS repeaters, check into getting license and permission to use them (you'll need repeater-capable GMRS radios - I've got a Motorola T-7200). If there are ham repeaters, get your amateur license - no Morse code required anymore. Get a couple of 5W handhelds, and you're good to go. Then volunteer for events and learn to use your radio. :-)



I have a Cobra MR HH425 that operates on GMRS and VHS. Has a large removable antenna. Rechargable ion batt, option AA batt pack. Really nice radio for $125 on ebay last year. Replaced my original motorola 10X that were gmrs only too. and yes I bought my fcc license

steve

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#158710 - 12/17/08 12:59 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: SJC]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
I'm looking for a set myself now, CB radios are a it large for bikes.
Anyone know if there is one i can remotly control? Would be nice to stick a radio in the bike trailer and be able to remotly key it up to hear if the kids are still happy.

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#158731 - 12/17/08 02:55 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: username_5]
neurotik Offline
Geek
Stranger

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Atlanta, GA
While not as available (yet) as FRS/GMRS you might look into MURS (Multi-Use Radio Service)

MURS is VHF rather than the UHF of FRS/GMRS. This means more range in open terrain. Frequencies are just above the 2 meter ham band. And power is allowed up to 2 watts. (vs .5w of FRS) MURS does not require a license. (note: GMRS requires a license...$85/5yrs as I recall)

Also of interest is that MURS does not require a fixed antenna. Power output of 2 watts is measured at the transmitter, not the antenna. (ERP) This means that you can legally use an external/aftermarket antenna with gain. (including high-gain antennas such as a Yagi or Log-Periodic)

Since MURS is fairly unknown to most people the frequency space is much more open and will be more private.

Dakota Alert is probably the biggest brand name in MURS-specific radios right now. They are pretty available online from places such as Cabela's.

Obviously if range is the number-one concern getting your technician-class HAM license is the way to go. The exam is incredibly easy and cheap to take and pass. This is less of an option for a family/friends unless you are willing to get each of them licensed. Technician-class licenses have full HAM privileges for VHF+ (6m, 2m, 70cm, etc) and have some privileges in HF. (notably 10 meter) Morse code is no longer a requirement.

It is possible (in fact easy) to use a hand held HAM rig and a repeater to literally talk around the world. There are technologies (such as IRLP and EchoLink) that allow you to talk to the repeater and link that repeater to another repeater elsewhere via the internet.


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#158755 - 12/17/08 05:22 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: SJC]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> I have a Cobra MR HH425 that operates on GMRS and VHS.

VHS? I use betamax. :->

GMRS and marine would come in handy here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Thanks for pointing the radio out to me. It's a little pricey, but if I were in the market for a marine radio, the combination of GMRS and marine would be excellent.

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#158756 - 12/17/08 05:23 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: Eugene]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> Anyone know if there is one i can remotly control?

If I understand FRS requirements from the FCC, remote control is prohibited.

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#158758 - 12/17/08 05:25 PM Re: recommend an FRS radio [Re: neurotik]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> Since MURS is fairly unknown to most people the frequency space is much
> more open and will be more private.

Shhhhhh ... nobody knows about MURS at Burning Man, so it's still usable!

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