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#88007 - 03/11/07 03:55 AM Thermocluster (Alt. energy)
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
The new power generator products from Russia. Check this out:
http://www.thermocluster.ru/indexeng.html
I like the "field-kettle". Almost indestructible, maintenance free, but $180+S/H...

It's Peltier elements based. Is there anything similar on the US market?



Edited by Alex (03/11/07 04:51 AM)

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#88009 - 03/11/07 04:02 AM Re: Thermocluster [Re: Alex]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Not a lot of power or efficiency. We were looking at Peltier circuits back in the 80s, and decided that, for the cost in weight and economics, a solar cell would be far better. Besides, subjecting semiconductor materials to that kind of heat stress will break them down a lot quicker. Still, the science is sound. i've seen nothing in the US that is like this, except in prototype.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#88010 - 03/11/07 04:04 AM Re: Thermocluster [Re: Alex]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Interesting. Build a fire, watch TV. I wonder what the cost might be???
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OBG

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#88013 - 03/11/07 04:28 AM Re: Thermocluster [Re: Alex]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Any links to how it actually turns heat into electricity?
What is this Peltier technology?
The actaul pot looks like it costs $1.50.

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#88014 - 03/11/07 04:31 AM Re: Thermocluster [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
The tag price is $180. By the way, I've realized it's not Peltier based (also I've found that Peltier is limited by ~350C vs 500-600C of campfire). This kettle utilizes a simple thermocouple effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple). Still not bad - 12W at 12V = 1 Amp. And must be very reliable.

I believe it should be easy to DIY with some patience welding hundreds of couples.

Regarding the solar power. Unfortunately, it's not so readily available at some times and places.


Edited by Alex (03/11/07 04:41 AM)

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#88016 - 03/11/07 04:46 AM Re: Thermocluster [Re: Alex]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Just found that such a device was discontinued in Russia in 1953.
So it's a new turn of evolution smile


Attachments
4-tgk3_m.jpg




Edited by Alex (03/11/07 04:48 AM)

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#88020 - 03/11/07 06:13 AM Re: Thermocluster [Re: Alex]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Another Russian wonder: http://www.stockauto.ru/svel/index.htm
Check the "Eng" link for more information.

In brief the SWEL stands for Salt+Water=ELectricity.
It's a 12 Volt 8 Watt ~100 Amp.hours battery (no recharging necessary just add water and salt every 10 hours, and change electrodes every 100 hours). The secret is in metal-air (magnesium nanostructures, I believe) anode plates.

In use by Russian Emergency Situations Ministry Task Forces for the past 3 years. Rock solid performance and reliability (5F - 122F). 10 years shelf life (dry). Patent Pending.

Price is approx. $50 (second set of electrodes included). Additional set of electrodes ~$14.

Russian fuel cells will never work on vodka smile


Edited by Alex (03/11/07 06:26 AM)

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#88037 - 03/11/07 08:06 PM Re: Thermocluster [Re: Alex]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
The Peltier effect IS the thermocouple effect, which is also the Seebeck effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltier-Seebeck_effect

Thermoelectric power generation is woefully inefficient. Most of the heat just passes right through without being converted to electrical power. However, sometimes it is appropriate.

Devices similar to the one shown have been around since WWII, IIRC. They haven't improved very much, despite a ton of research that was done in the 50's/60's in search of the holy grail, a more efficient material that would allow it to be used for large scale applications like nuclear subs.

How do I know all this? I used to work for a Peltier module manufacturer.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#88047 - 03/11/07 10:02 PM Re: Thermocluster [Re: thseng]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Right on Tom. We played around with Peltier devices in Electronics lab a long time ago, and found that they were better suited to removing heat than in making juice. Apparently so did the market, as shortly after that we started seeing thermoelectric coolers using a bank of semiconductors as the heat sink. Those seem to have a modest yet consistent following still.

You can get the peltier effect by simply stacking pennies and nickels together, welding a wire onto each end of the stack, and heating the stack up. Each layer will produce about .25 volts at a very low current (maybe a few milliamps). Basically, any two dissimilar metals form a semiconductor of sorts (I believe that is called a Shotkey(sp) junction) that should generate the same effect.

The problem is, how long to pennies and nickels last when exposed to flames?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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