I am quite afraid, nationally and internationally speaking, -that Rough Times are gonna come. One to several years, to a decade plus, down the road. I personally think the odds of such are a good deal Better than Even. Valley Forge type hardships again, in place of Tomahawks, Blackhawks, et al.Often politically caused, -but such things are not my purpose or focus here. Its neccessary to briefly state that as much of the source. Natural disasters could play a large role here too.

In either or any event, -Let us all set about being Prepared and Ready!

Far Better to be some guerilla or other Survivor in the hills! -Than just another schlopp in whatever "powers that be"s Salt Mines! (if even that lucky). Things such as "Red Dawn" do come to mind. As do historical examples of all too rare "Lone Noahs". Who in retrospect saw what was a coming.

Again, -the focus is on being as Ready as one can be! No matter what the cause. This is just a general "reminder-mention", -towards such. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

That's got to be the understatement of the century.

Troy

Well here in the southwest we've been under a long term drought with occassional breaks, a steady influx of people into the area that doesn't look like it will end soon. At some point the resources here will reach their limit. All it will take a serious climatic episode to break the system. What happens to apparently civilized people when those kind of events happen? Civil unrest, violence, or worse. What if it were a global climatic change? I don't want any part of it.

But don't you think that every generation has dealt with rough times? I mean weren't there two "war to end all wars" in the 20th century alone? Not to mention all the other wars, oil crises X2, genocides multiple times, terrorism, and what has all of it led to?

I heard an interview with a teacher today who has been teaching for 70 years, 56 years in the same classroom! She said that teenagers today are just like teenagers have always been, except for one thing: they no longer have a desire to gain knowledge. They learn material for a test and that's all. I see the same thing in my tae kwon do school. The other night, our head teacher asked the class why they would want to do anything less than their best...no one had an answer.

I think this growing apathy is a result of information overload and a growing sense of despair. The kids, and adults for that matter have instant access to infinite information from all over the globe. It can be overwhelming, depressing and anxiety producing. It just happens.

Seen Johnny Mnemonic? The movie centers around a disease called NAS-Nerve Attenuation Syndrome...caused by overuse of technology and information overload. It is possible we are starting to seem something similar happen in our own society.

We have to take care of ourselves. If we feel overwhelmed by the things we see, we need to take care of our minds and souls. Meditate, pray, walk in a quiet place. Find the thing that helps us let go and re-center.

Yes, we need to prepare ourselves as best we can, but we also need to take care of ourselves so we can be as mentally prepared to handle whatever comes our way.

9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, uncertain job markets...we are going through some rough times, with no certain end in sight. More rough times are ahead to be sure. But we must have faith that if we prepare ourselves as best we can, and help those around us prepare as well, those rough times will be more managable, and we will endure. And one day our descendents will look back at the work we did, the things we endured and say, "My goodness, those were rough times. How did they ever make it through that?"

Gather your supplies and tools, learn as much as you can, practice what you learn and help others when you can.

Rough times, yes. Insurmountable times, no.

So I'm watching an episode of Star Trek DS9 right now, entitled "Past Tense" where Sisko, Dax and Bashir are transported to 21st century Earth through a transporter malfunction. Sisko and Bashir are walking through a "sanctuary district" which is almost like a prison/slum area of a city and they are talking about the social problems of the era. Sisko mentions that in the US, in the early 21st century that people felt like the social problems were too enormous to deal with; it's not that people don't give a damn, it's just that they've given up. Bashir says, "Causing people to suffer because you hate them is terrible, but causing people to suffer because you have forgotten how to care...that's really hard to understand."

Bashir goes on to say "It makes you wonder, doesn't it? Are humans really any different that Cardassians, or Romulans? If push comes to shove, if something disasterous happens to the Federation, if we are frightened enough or desperate enough, how would we react? Would we stay true to our ideals, or would we just stay here, where we started?"

I have felt for a long time there has been incredible social commentary in the Star Trek series.

Sisko assures Bashir that the people in the early 21st century will remember how to care.

Let's not wait for more rough times to come. Remember how to care today, and maybe you can help someone else remember how to care too.

Turn off your TVs, it's a beautiful day to learn.... Self sufficiency, less dependency, fewer needs, preparedness.

I refuse to let the media knock down my door.

I think our future adults are in a world of hurt. They lack morals, values and most importantly work ethic. I have 15 yr old twins and I'm exposed to a lot of their peers. For the most part, their parents aren't involved in their lives as much as ours were. They are completely wrapped up in consumerism, I want this I'm gonna buy that but none of them want a job. They want mommy and daddy to get it for them. You are correct when you say they aren't interested in education. The don't have to be when everything is handed to them.

Our parents generation had chores from the time they were little. They knew the importance of education because their parents insisted they get good grades. Hard work wasn't a bad thing. My mother worked in a fish cannery in Monterey when she was 12-13 to help support her family during the depression.

I worked under the table at a friends Dad's concrete company from the time I was 13, digging footers and pouring concrete, washed dishes at Denny's and I bought my first car long before I was 16.

I'm sorry, I believe our youth are soft little cry babies. Heaven forbid SHTF now because they won't know what to do whe the batteries die on their I-pods.

Couldn't agree more!

I'm with you. When I start worrying about "ruff times" I just think about my parents and grandparents during the Great Depression, and our problems are kind of knocked back down to size.

All I can say is... agreed <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Troy

I don't think it's information overload, I know a number of young men and women (who I don't think of as kids) from this generation who are very wired in who want to learn. I did a very informal study a few months back, sitting around the lunch table with them. Keep in mind, this is at an engineering college. The questions were:

Were you read to?
Did you learn to read prior to kindergarten?
What was your first toy?

The smarter and more imaginative ones, who are reluctant leaders, answered Yes to the first one, across the board. Most said yes to the second one, and the one who didn't has radical dyslexia. And to the third one, everyone said blocks or legos. Even the young ladies.

Unfortunately, the thirty people I asked aren't really big enough to be called a study, but I'd love to do this one with the general public.

I don't think it's the privilage of the information available to them. This complaint has been heard before, at the end of every great Pax. It's the fact that they aren't exploring. Every single one of the people I asked who I would describe as a leader or a doer camps or climbs or hikes or kyaks or any and all of the above.

They have imagination. They all design, rather than copied other peoples work. They want to take the universe apart to see what makes it tick.

They do things the hard way, when they have time, because it's more instructive. Or becuase it's fun.

They also question what they see. They react badly to being lied to, and they try to change things that are wrong.

I'd say that if anything, it's the exact opposite of data saturation. Most kids are spoon fed what they know, and they only know it by rote. The kids just don't care, becuase no one has ever made them care. They never earned what they know and think, they had everything in thier heads handed to them. The young ladies and gentlemen in question don't.

I think if I had to sum up the difference, it's a matter of roles. Do you produce ideas and create the world? Or do you consume and use?

My wife and I just had a conversation about this. It seems they want to be taken care of.

If the SHTF, they would sit on the sidewalk and wait for the gubmint to come along and hold their hands. They would then proceed to whine about whoever is in charge (Dem or PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.) letting them down.

I've seen this over and over again. Even in minor situations.
I'm the "crazy survivalist" uncle/cousin they make fun of - until they need me, of course.

I hear your well thought out points. Sure, -we and preceeding generations, both here and elsewhere round the world, -have been thru ruff times before. Often plenty ruffer than what we typically crow, cry, and canterwaul about.

However, -I'm not so much referring to our current list of all round woes per se, -as conventional wisdom now has it. True, -these are a good part of it all. But I am not saying that these are solely what such upcoming Ruff Times are all about.

(NOTE- In the following, -I minimally and neccessarily generally *touch* on political etc causes, -towards "establishing the source". And *not* for the purpose of improperly venturing into this sphere here, itself).

I'm referring "most centrally" to things like America and/or the Western World in general, -suddenly finding itself knocked flat on its back! September 11th times 5, 10, or more plus. True enemies out there gathering and strengthing, forming Alliances and whatnot, -while we suddenly find our technological and other rugs just yanked out from under us!

That very shock and sense of being lost, -of that moment, -would be an additional burden to the full load we'd be then carrying, in itself.

Kinda like when Stalin spent weeks just lost and lollygagging around, in the opening days, weeks, and months of *his* World War 2, -not knowing what to do! Meanwhile, more than a few huge Soviet Armies, -hundreds of thousands strong each, -were just cut off and left behind, -in German encirclement after encirclement. What a tremendous waste!, -of vital and valuable resources! At precisely at the moments when you so sorely, absolutely *Need* them!!! Bet he was sorry that he previously sacked so many valuable, sorely needed, generals too! In his purges, -actually a misidentification of his real, then upcoming, problems. Meanwhile, -he for the longest time, -just sat stunned out on the floor! His far more prepared enemy meanwhile raced all the way to Leningrad, Kursk, the Caucass, Moscow, and his namesake city, Stalingrad. Lucky he had the great Russian and Siberian hinterland, (and Western aid and Fronts), to eventually draw from. What if he wouldn't have had even that?!

I'm talking something of such, -reasonably likely someday happening to us! Yes, -U.S.! While *we* lollygag around with things like Defense Softness, and more than a little "September 11th was so Yesterday!", -worrying more about being "Nice" to hijacker types at Guantanamo, -than preventing them from doing such again, -They and other "Ruff Forces" out there, -could well be "Cooking and Conspiring Up", -for a knockdown blow! *On* and *At* us!

Natural Disasters and things like a bird flu pandemic, -could play great "supporting roles".

We could find ourselves trying to hold too many balls up in the air, at once!

I'm talking our very Technological Base, -being knocked right back to the Stone Age! Thats what I mean, by "Valley Forge type Hardships", once again.

And things that go around, have a funny way of eventually coming around. I don't mean to get improperly political here, -but our leaving of South Vietnam to the wolves in 1975, -during their Moments of Need, -haunts me and causes me to shudder. (I did not personally drop this ball so back then, -as a highschooler, -I was very Alarmed, Uneasy, and Concerned!). Twas easy to look the other way back then, -it wasn't directly us. But *we* could be the ones someday in Saigon's shoes. Uncomfortably so knowing what that feels like. Further, ther'll be no bigger brother than us to turn to, -*we* are it.

Just look at the manifold and continueing, -Tones and Tenors of our Times! Since 9-11, -and actually brewing up, -from long before. The trends here which point to very likely upcoming Ruff Times, -and I mean Flat on our Back upcoming Ruff Times!, -are only legion. (media exaggerances, one side of the story, etc, notwithstanding).

We're like a nice, hot cup of coffee, -set in the freezer, -I'm afraid. I'm afraid that we don't have enough "Oomph of Warmth" in that cup, -to hold our own, *and* overcome the effects of that freezer! -The *Long Term* effects of that surrounding freezer. Nothing Less than the requisite "Oomph" here, -is gonna do! Yet we *still* all too often, lollygag around, -in our own sorts of way!

We're like a hockey team. -playing brilliantly in one or two one minute spurts each period, -yet very much just "drop the puck", -for the rest! *While* our opponent moves to a "Full Court Press Power Play", -throughout. For the duration. What kind of hockey game, -much less Winning one, -is that!? It surely is plenty less than our Best! And nothing less than our Best, -our *sustained* Very Best, -will do! I'm wondering whether we Really have such in us! For more than just a minute or two each period, -for more than just a few days, weeks, or months, -after something serious or significant happens. Like BJ Thomas says in one of his songs, -"For More than just a day!".

I had to touch on some political matters to convey where I'm coming from, -in my speaking of likely upcoming Ruff Times. To further clarify such as real "Flat Out on our Back", of such. Not just today's conventionally understood "this or that". This would seem to be the case, -via your's and some other's replys here. But beyond neccessarily establishing the general source and cause, -I don't mean to be talking political matters here.

Again, -I'm not talking *only* of conventionally well known matters such as Hurricanes, Iraq, etc, as elements of Ruff Times here. Which as you say, -large though they are, -pales next to some real, plenty Ruffer, -stuff as we've been through before! And yet came through and on Top.

But rather some real, Knock Flat Out on our Backs! Sorts of Rough Times, -from any number of more or less, simultaneously occurring, sources and causes. Be such man made or natural.

We *can* avoid such a fall into the saltpit! But not if we play only a "sometimes" game of hockey, -as we all too often play. Proceed at our Best! And we may not have to implement our preparations then. We may not have nearly as many Ruff Times. We may then not find ourselves Flat on our Back so!

Till then, -and/or failing such fully sustained Best of ourselves, -Preparedness is all we can, -and had bettered, -be about and do. For Real, Flat on our Back, Rough Times a coming, -are then all so very much more likely! I once again am afraid!

This being suppossedly over *only* all too well known current matters as Iraq and Katrina?, -Well as Tom Cheney said to Mattie Ross in True Grit, -"That was not my Meaning"!
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]Ors[/email]

A further thought or two that has since occurred;-

Its just that there's been a Cascade of Softiness lately, -as regards being on our Guard, remaining Vigilant, etc. Astonishingly and Alarmingly so. Like our seriously entertaining closing down Guantanamo, recent NSA matters, etc. This on *top* of other, longstanding Ball Droppages, -such as watering down the Patriot Act, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. (Again, -all of this minimal mention of such, -is towards establishing the source. Toward further clarifying my meaning, -in that such need had arisen).

We recently released a listing of those at Gitmo. *Osama* reminded us just recently, -that he so knows, -*and that this is by our having told him*! Too late now, -that ammo has just been Gifted over to the enemy! Hopefully we've learned!

Try doing any of these Waterdowns within a few months after 9-11, -and the whole country would be crying for such a one, -to *go* to a place like Gitmo. Twasn't too much then, -but it is too little now. This doesn't say much for our Resolve or Memory! Nor for our future Safety.

Its not a given that another one will happen, -but it much more enlikens it. We're hanging out a cascade of raw, juicy meat, -before the Qaida and company dog.

This, -along with other causes abrewing, -causes me to feel lately, -that serious, Flat Out on our Back, Ruff Times, -are more than likely a coming!

I mean we're really dropping such balls lately pretty bad! Like a hungry pig to the slop trough! (I used to live on a farm). This is no way to Watch, Fight, and Prepare, -for our very National Survival !

I'm also sure most of us have heard of such things as Informaton / Cyber Warfare, and EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse). This is a major part of where I'm coming from, -when I speak of likely enuff someday finding ourselves Flat on our Back, -and being technologically knocked from the Space Age, -right on back to the Stone Age! And from Blackhawks, Tomahawk cruises, etc, -right on back to Valley Forge Hardships once again.

How often do we ever ask ourselves (without being a Defeatist), -"What if we Lose?!" What if we are frankly someday, -Conquered?!

We need to play Brilliantly and at our Best!, -throughout the *entire* hockey period and game! We're up against a World Class Opponent! Albeit in other ways than are we. Our Memory and Resolve, -has to last longer than a minute every now and then!

Otherwise, -I'm afraid we're not gonna make it thru the period, game, or War.

Of course I remain cheerleading and in the fight, -for our side. But I am quite Disappointed and Less than Happy!, -with our side as well! In our playing such a vital game, -as though it were some mere Sunday School chore or obligation or something!

OK, -its now sufficiently enough, -towards establishing such a source. For at least the most part, -I've said my such Peace.

So now onto the final relevant reminder here, -BE PREPARED! Learn and Inform yourselves up! Bug Out Move, Hunker Down and Stay in Place, -or whatever shades of grey in between. But however you do it, -Do It !!! BE PREPARED so!

We've been tempting the Dog and Fate way too much lately! and I see little to no sort of "Get a Grip and Hold to Ourselves" of an end in sight! But I rather only see who knows how much more of the Softish Dangerous same! We *Can't* be having that! This can't be sustained indefinitely. Sooner or later, -that dog's going for the meat! And that bite's gonna come out of our, -or some Fellow Westerner's, hide.

The astonishing Ball Droppages have been too much lately. Therefore, -I reluctantly but realistically am afraid, -that Real, as much as Flat Out on our Back, Ruff Times, -are more than likely, with odds more than even, -a coming!

The source causes of this have now been basically mentioned. We should Avert it to our Utmost, -by turning the heck around! From all this "Softy Swim"!

But whether we do so or not, -the question remains, -regarding any such upcoming Ruff Times, -What the heck are we gonna do about it!? The only all round answer once again, -is be Apprised, Alert, and PREPARED !!!!

This should be "End of Story". But how much more is this Nation and Culture of our's, -to be Reminded !? I thought it said Loud and Clear, -that it was going to "Never Forget"! How bout Remembering and Acting like we do, -then!

PREPARE PREPARE! I'm afraid there may very well be such a need! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

In short, I agree with you, but, my personal opinion would be considered draconion by many on this board, so, I will keep it to myself. If you're interested in what a right-winger from the Heartland thinks, and promise not to be offended beyond further communication, PM me and I'd be happy to discuss it in more detail in private <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

Agreed, I'm from the land of AuH2O and I don't think this forum is the place for this disscussion. I too would be happy to disscuss it elsewhere.

Ok. You've piqued my interest. What does that mean? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Au= Gold
H2O= Water

AuH20= Goldwater

From the 1964 election, for those of you old enough to remember:

What does LBJ see when he looks in the urinal?

His Integrity?

I am not going to go into a long speech here, but just say that I agree....and I disagree! I have watched everything from the Gitmo news to the Greenhouse warning's on TV. I see a generation now that in many way's do not only "Not" think for themselves, but seem to be relying on our Gov to "Cure" all ailment's! I have seen our OWN Gov report where they predict our oil reserves run dry by 2012, I see our Middle East military bases "Ringing" in the Arab Oil Field's. I have see just how effective FEMA and the "72 Hour Kit" were! I see all the petty Dictator's in third world countries, steal the aid we provide them. I see the people of those same countries carrying placards saying they are our "Enemy's" and they will "Kill" us! I see the Arab Oil Emerates slowly squeezing us to death on their ever rising oil cost's. And I see our Politician's giving ground more every day to the Third world. .........Now tell me.......is it reall just "Us"?, or is the rest of the US Populace turning into a flock of mindless Sheep.....Krell

I’m here and I along with the rest of my Soldiers and Sailors (read heroes) are toe-to-toe with “enemy combatants” everyday. Many of which would hurt or kill one of us (and they often try) without hesitation. It’s my opinion we are holding many because their own countries do not want them back for fear of what they are capable of doing. And yes, they are treated better than we are: higher quality food, better medical and dental care, library, workout equipment the list goes on.
I heard an Israeli military commander speak on terrorism. In brief he was absolute we (USA) would be hit again. We have all our vast resources to throw at terrorism; technology, science and law enforcement. It’s ridiculous and fruitless we are spending these resources looking for things and not people. It wasn’t an 80 year old woman or a six month old baby or a blond-haired blue-eyed teenager that hi-jacked a plane on 9/11. If we keep it up it will happen again. His opinion and I agree.
Enough of mister nice guy, already! Who cares if we hurt some feelings (overseas and at home) if it makes us less a target?

Right now it is not a baby or an old lady, but it could be in the future. Women are becoming terrorists now so who knows what the world will be coming to.

Thanks for reminding everyone that there are still plenty of fine young men and women out there to lead our world. A lot of the time when I hear people complain about the "youth of today" I think to myself that it really doesn't sound much different than my father complaining about my generation or my grandfather compaining about my father's generation.

First off, -I am pretty much Lost for Words!, -in my Respect and Appreciation, -for what you do down there at Gitmo. And my Best Wishes for you and your "Kin" there, in all ways.

On the News up here, -we heard some things about the *fake* suicide / ambush attempts, of not that long ago. I can be quite Sure that there are many *other* such things, -NOT typically making our News!

Again, -my Respect and Best! And Take Care. (I will do the Same). [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Notyet[/email]

Just yesterday (July 31), -or very close to this date, -Sean Hannity shared some very illuminating and detailed information on this, -on his radio show. (from the AP, -in turn from an FOIA request). For once it sheds a "Positive" and Truthful Light, on the matter. Along the lines you speak of. Perhaps you can access the Archives on his site, for such.

Today on the net, -I've also found some things on this, on Michelle Malkin's site.

Again, -All of my Best! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

[color:"blue"] [/color] Hello to one and all...... I am Ponce and from Cuba therefore you will pardon my English.....this is my first post.
I have been getting ready for what is to come for the past six years and the first thing that I did was to get the heck out of California and move into the mountains or Oregon....I know live six miles from a one mule town ( to small to have a horse).

At this time I have three generatos and 150 gallons of fuel which I rotate all the time...... 500 gallons of heating oil and 50 gallons of lamp oil....... Mountain House food for two years with cans and others (sacks, packs and so on) for another 1.5 years for a total of 3.5 years.

Also have extra matirial in order to make home repair and a large tiller for food production....... also a lot of silver that will allowed me to survie for another 15-20 years in the comfort of my home.
Lots of alarms which are connected to the batteries that gets its power from a solar 115 W solar pannel.

Any questions please ask.......Ponce

"To be ready is not"... Ponce

It sounds like you have this thing figured out pretty well.