I don't. I encourage you to search all 649 of my posts.

Anyway, I commend you guys for being politically correct, being the rescuer, protecting the little guy, or whatever you want to call it. However, you should also realize that people here all come from different backgrounds. Again, the following statement has not been my experience at all: "the best writer among the students at her school tend to be people from other countries who have undergone rigorous language training".

You can argue all you want. In my experience, the best English writers I know of any style of writing, at any education level, have been native speakers of English. Your backgrounds and experiences are different. So be it.

I had a training on creating texts. The trainer had a good quote. "For understanding the text, one person has to do substantial work. Either the author or the reader."


Towards that group it would be a special courtesy to at least try and add some structure to the text. Lack of punctuation and paragraphs may make it hard to read for native speakers. It makes it almost unreadable to those who are not.


Structures, good grammar and good spelling are pretty widespread standards for writing. Occasional errors are normal and cannot be considered to be careless (after all that still is a forum and not a proofread paper). Not trying is careless and maybe even rude.


You are right on this. However it is not only about advice that is given. It also is about posts that ask for some kind of advice. How are you going to give good advice if you don´t understand the request? Would you really take the time to repeatedly read a question only to understand it? Many people wont.

It is always interesting how discussion topics take on a life of their own.

This topic started as a simple request for additional "white space" (limited punctuation and some carriage returns) to improve the organization and readability of some posts. It has since wandered through auto formatting techniques, css rules, browser capabilities, the importance of overall grammar and english as a second language.

Sticking with the original request - there are literally hundreds of studies of language readability (any language - even "programming languages"). The general conclusion of the ones I have seen is that using white space (lateral and vertical) and other cues (capital letters, simple punctuation) to organize what you are trying to communicate is critical in helping the reader get the point(s) your are trying to make. Interesting thing to note is this seems to be due to human physiology and it appears to be consistent across all forms of written communication (even music and math) as well as being independent of first or second languages.

With the above in mind, if you are making the effort to post something it is because you have something to say. Why not say it in a way that is more accessible to others? That isn't saying you need to be grammatically perfect (no one is).

Interesting (if wide ranging) discussion,

- Eric

Not to do so much with posts being readable but being able too read between the lines so to speak, sarcasm is really hard to translate to written word.

IRL (In Real Life)(#sarcasm), I use dry humor, light sarcasm and been dubbed the King of the backhanded compliment by people who I talk to. Be that as it may, very difficult to do that in writing, it will come across as superiority, ego, anger, when trying to convey the polar opposite. So much of how we are interpreted by others when we use sarcasm is based on factors that are not able to be interpreted in writing such as syntax, body language, innate familiarization of the topic, inflection.

Something to also consider.

I would like to thank all contributors to the forums. Diversity in thought and style while challenging leads one to consider the many options of problem solving. I have always found spelling, writing and the use of proper grammar to be a challenge, but found that the more one attempts to utilize the written word, the more one becomes comfortable in expressing one’s thoughts though writing.

Writing clearly and concisely is an art and one that develops over time. Writing so others might better understand our thoughts can be challenging, but it is an essential part of communication. As a community, I believe we need to be patient and encourage expression of thought without being too critical.

For those of us who might be the source of people’s frustration with our writing styles, try and heed the suggestions of those who are proficient writers, your communication skills will benefit and allow you to express your ideas so other may have the opportunity to analyze your thoughts.


My 2 cents-
Pete
comms not directed at you, just the last post in the thread)

Wow, a huge thread. Don't have time to read through, just throw in my 2c. To make any text easy to read online just shrink your browser window so to resemble the width of a single newspaper column design in width - proven by ages way of feeding long text (6 words in a row). Especially important if you have a modern wide screen monitor.

That's a great suggestion. Thanks!

A complicated topic! Among Americans it seems like it partly comes down to age. As an over 40 guy I don't make much distinction between writing a letter, a text or a forum post. I attempt to use "white-space" (a term that didn't enter the lexicon for our average person until the late '90's) and correct grammar. But since a forum is often a free-wheeling, off-the-cuff environment I don't try to be a Nazi about it. And I'll use a few abbreviations, since this isn't formal correspondance.

The only real "capital crime" against readability is ALL CAPS, theendlessrunonsentence, and the steadfast refusal to use paragraphs.