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#219230 - 03/15/11 01:34 PM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: Ann]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Ann
...an HTI filter would be my top choice...

Although not very practical for producing large amounts of water or quickly, if portability and being able to operate without power are primary concerns, forward osmosis like HTI's product seems like a good choice for what you're describing.

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#219247 - 03/15/11 02:29 PM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: gonewiththewind]
juhirvon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 36
Reverse Osmosis pumps will remove most of nitrates, phosphates and heavy metals from water. I would assume this will clog the filters of any hand held pump pretty quickly, but how quickly, I have no idea (and having no access to a lab I can't really tell for sure how effective they are).

The problems with ROPs are price, tiny volume of purified water (the manual life raft model produces about 1-2 litres per hour of manual pumping, the electricity run models are pretty decent but obviously, require a power source) and need for special replacement filters. On the plus side, they also desalinate sea water and remove most of the taste from any water.

For situations where you don't have access to such a pump. I would probably let water stand in a bucket until sediment falls to the bottom, scooping the top 2/3-3/4 and repeating the process two or three times. After that, add any normal water purifications and hope for the best.

-jh

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#219269 - 03/15/11 05:25 PM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: gonewiththewind]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Hope it rains and get your tarps and containers out.

If you're talking about your home area, contact your local Water Board and ask them what kinds of contaminants are in the local water (they know). Then ask what would be the best, least complicated way to deal with them in a major disaster situation.

Use the info now that is already available. Waiting until a problem erupts and then guessing on how to deal with it would seem to be the height of poor planning.

Sue

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#219290 - 03/15/11 07:05 PM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: Mark_M]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
A bit further into the water purification thread linked:

Originally Posted By: Blast
Quote:
Just wondering... would there be any benefit to open, uncovered heating of the water so the vapors of those low-temp chemicals would leave the water first, then go to regular distillation. I'm talking if there was no other water to be had.


Yes. The other option is to discard the first 10% and last 15%of whatever is distilled over. Switch out the receiving container to collect only the middle portion of the fluid. Redistill the water a second time removing the same cuts if you are really concerned the water may be contaminated. You'll lose a fair amount of water but the water you do collect will be safe.

-Blast


Apparently it is not a time but rather a volume consideration. But don't take my word for it, I am by no means an expert. Blast on the other hand ... wink
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#219306 - 03/15/11 09:24 PM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: Richlacal]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Natural water sources were never really safe. What bears do in the woods, beaver fever (also known as giardia), naturally occurring alkali and arsenic, there are even some plants that can poison water in some rare situations. Point being that you can't assume the water is safe to start with.

Then you add humanity, leaking septic tanks, people squatting in the woods. Things get worse if those people are maintaining a golf course, grassy areas, growing crops with lavish applications of fungicides, herbicides, insecticides, fertilizers. But on top of this you can stack the abominable behaviors of country gear-heads dumping their used motor oil, agricultural and industrial dumping, general human carelessness and callousness.

But even that may be just the start. Consider the standing water in Haiti, or Japan after the tsunami. Mama was very careful with how and where she used that insecticide. She kept is sealed in its bottle well away from hard. Them the wave came along and ground her lovely and orderly home, and that bottle of insecticide, to splinters. The answer to the question; what is in the water is like the old James Dean line. When asked what he was rebelling against he answered back 'What you got?'. Pretty much every chemical, fuel, virtually anything that could get into the water is in there in some amount.

First way to get around this is to try to find cleaner water. Any rainfall, outside that falling through smoke from fires, or vapors from the nuke plant, should be collected. Outside that careful consideration of what is in the area is helpful.

After that some mix of skimming, settling and crude filtering would be a good start. After that carbon filters would be one way to go.

The other way is what Richlacal suggests.

Originally Posted By: Richlacal
How about Distilling? I know the process of Distilling,Rids the water of containing Minerals,for the purpose of Purification/Clarity/Taste,When making Whiskey,Shine,etc.Does Heavy Metal Contamination Mock the same Category as Mineral Contamination?


Distillation would work well I think. I'm thinking of something like a Sierra stove. A stove that will allow you to convert the huge mounds of scrap wood into distilled water, hot food, warmth.

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#219359 - 03/16/11 07:44 AM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: gonewiththewind]
kevindick Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 19
Forward osmosis systems could potentially remove chemical contaminants. See http://www.247water.org/. They advertise it as working on contaminated water.

Basically, they have a sugar/salt syrup on one side of a membrane. Dirty water goes on the other side. Osmotic pressure pushes H2O from the dirty side to the clean side.

Never used it myself but thought it might be worth having a couple of the emergency use versions in a kit.

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#219485 - 03/17/11 02:34 AM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: Richlacal]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Richlacal
How about Distilling?


Fuel and/or time intensive, not very mobile, and a number of contaminates evaporate as well and would condense in the system. Petrochems mostly, but IIRC there are some other ag chems that won't mind. You'll get out heavy metals and salts, so if you got the time, fuel, material and don't mind relatively low output, sure.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#219496 - 03/17/11 05:41 AM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: kevindick]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: kevindick
Forward osmosis systems could potentially remove chemical contaminants. See http://www.247water.org/. They advertise it as working on contaminated water.

Basically, they have a sugar/salt syrup on one side of a membrane. Dirty water goes on the other side. Osmotic pressure pushes H2O from the dirty side to the clean side.

Never used it myself but thought it might be worth having a couple of the emergency use versions in a kit.


I believe the Seapack and Hydropack kits, the ones that use a syrup to promote osmosis, don't yield pure drinking water, but rather a sweetened drink, similar to sports drink. I recall reading something that sweetened drinks, including sports drink, aren't ideal for rehydration. Then again, gotta be better than nothing.

Maybe once things settle down in Japan there will be some new studies on the effectiveness of various filtering methods and devices to deal with these types of situations. Hopefully Consumer Reports or a similar objective organization will perform a scientific rather than empirical study.


Edited by Mark_M (03/17/11 05:42 AM)
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#219500 - 03/17/11 09:38 AM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: Mark_M]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Forward osmosis is an interesting concept, but I was not impressed by the amount of water they provided - something like half a liter per capsule, and that over a very long period. In any situation where you are doing even moderate work, that amount of water is minuscule. For most applications, it would be much simpler merely to pack the water in the first place.

I have had good experience with sports drinks for rehydration, although I usually dilute Gatorade about fifty-fifty with water. It is better that way when working hard.
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#219600 - 03/18/11 12:38 AM Re: Water contaminated by industrial or farm waste [Re: gonewiththewind]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...


A relevant excerpt from Zen Backpacking...............


http://zenbackpacking.net/WaterFilterPurifierTreatment.htm

The US military uses Chlor-Floc water purification tablets which uses aluminum sulfate as a flocculating agent.

Flocculating agents allow for removal of suspended solids in water by promoting rapid clomping and sedimentation of fine particles suspended in water. This sediment is then easily removed by straining the water through a cloth or by siphoning or pouring off just the clear water. This isn't a "filter" treatment in itself but allows for the removal many suspended solids to improve clarity and taste of water as well as decreasing the amount of treatment (chemical/filtration/heat/radiation/etc) needed for your water.

Flocculating and coagulation can remove 60–98% of microorganisms, heavy metals, and some chemicals and minerals from water.


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