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#178516 - 08/03/09 04:42 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survival [Re: Blast]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#178520 - 08/03/09 04:57 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survival [Re: Susan]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Food alone would be a massive problem, with overwhelming starvation. Who really knows how to grow it? Who even has seeds right in their home? Has their soil been improved, or is it solid clay or nutrient-poor sand? How many people have gardening books on hand, so they even know how to grow it? And if they can grow it, how do they preserve it for the other three-quarters of the year? Can it? Do you have the glass jars and lids? How many people know how to make containers from glass? There probably wouldn't be any lids, so they would have to use paraffin. Where do they get the paraffin? No jar lids means no pressure canning, just hot-water bath canning, and probably some sugar. Drying in humid country requires heat and insect protection. Pickling requires salt or vinegar. Does everyone have a goodly supply of salt and sugar and screening or netting?

How about medicine? Talk about the Dark Ages! No autoclaves, no centrifuges, no electron microscopes, most diagnostic equipment are just doorstops, no incubators, and most of the medications will probably be herbal (that strange old lady down the street with the 17 cats and her three acres devoted to herbs, everyone's new best friend!). Can you imagine how today's doctors would be dealing with the problems?


This took me back reminiscing about the tattie howking and berry picking days of my youth during the school summer holidays during in early 80s, lifting the tatties to the sound of MJs Thriller on my Sony Walkman. Imagine the Hullabaloo you would have nowadays keeping the all the school children off school for a few weeks to get the harvest in. crazy

A few years without electricity might actually save more lives in the long run as all those folks with sedentary lifestyles might actually had to do some manual labour, they would get leaner and fitter. The health and diet industry might see a particularly bad downturn in its fortunes though.

Probably the worst aspect of a post EMP attack would probably be someone having the idea that slavery might be worthwhile re-introducing as the ruling elite probably wouldn't want to get their owns hands dirty down in the farmers fields.

Hmm perhaps 90 percent casualty rates might not be out of the question after all as everyone starts shooting everyone else for that potato (but even then would they know how to cook it after prising it from someones cold dead hands?). whistle


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#178523 - 08/03/09 06:01 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survival [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

What's a "tattie?"

I've picked berries as a youthful Oregonian, but can't recall howking a tattie.

---- I've since Googled the phrase and was relieved to see it's not related to phlegm.


:-)




Edited by Dagny (08/03/09 06:12 PM)

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#178524 - 08/03/09 06:20 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survival [Re: Dagny]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Picking potatoes I believe...
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JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

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#178528 - 08/03/09 07:50 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survival [Re: Tyber]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Diesel generators contain motor windings, rectifiers, and regulators, just like any other sort of portable generator system does. They will fry out just as quickly as any other semi-conductor or coil of wire will. A diesel engine will keep running because it has no ignition system, except if the electronic fuel injection control system gets fried, then it is a piece of junk just like any gasoline engine.

Modern diesel engines will not survive an EMP any better than modern gasoline engines. Last I looked, there weren't too many dusseldorfs(sp) on the road.

Out of 20 new model cars, I know I can fry the solid state electronics in all of them just by inducing an EMF field consistent with an EMP. I've done it before, I can repeat it.

A faraday screen must have a tremendous ground connection in order to sufficiently mitigate the transients associated with an EMP effectively. The ground conductance needs to be on the order of thousands of mhos to be even marginally effective against a nuke EMP. Without the shunt, the field saturates and propagation through the screen is inevitable. I liken the effect to what happens when you hit a big bell with a hammer. If the bell is dampened, the sound energy is not propagated, but if the bell is not dampened (grounded), the sound energy carries through the bell and beyond.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#178534 - 08/03/09 10:39 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survi [Re: Dagny]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Speaking of refrigeration, what kind of portable solar-battery charger setup could run a small fridge in the summer?


A company called Sundanzer produce domestic Refrigerator and Freezers designed to be used with 12V solar PV. Typically if you wanted to run a Sundanzer Refrigerator of say 8 cubic feet in ambient temperatures of 100F then the amount of solar energy would be around 430Whrs/day with the PV array battery size assumming 4 sun hours/day @ 220W PV array with 335Ahr 12V Deep Cycle battery. For a Freezer of the same size then a 475W PV array and 740Ahr 12v battery would be required.

http://www.sundanzer.com/PDF/residential_system_sizing.pdf

http://store.sundancesolar.com/su80cuftdcfr.html

So the cost for the more expensive Freezer option would typically be;

Freezer - SunDanzer 8.0 Cu. Ft. DC Freezer -$1250
Solar PV array - Sharp 80 Watt Solar Panel NE-80EJEA x6 = $2574
Charge Regulator - Xantrex C60 Charge Controller - $179
AGM Batteries - 12V 105 Amp-Hour Sealed Lead Acid AGM Battery x8 - $2720

Total Cost including cabling - approx $7000

The SunDanzer 8.0 Cu ft. Refrigerator option would be considerably cheaper at around $4300

Of course if the ambient temperature for the refrigerator and Freezer operation are lower then the cost will come down as well.







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#178536 - 08/03/09 11:11 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survi [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The Polar Power SPR-10 is another refrigerator to consider if you prefer an upright. Don't own one now, but I might later. That said, I like the idea of a chest type freezer, more efficient as the "cold" doesn't spill out every time you open it.
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#178538 - 08/03/09 11:23 PM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survi [Re: Russ]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA

The SunDanzer 8.0 Cu ft. Refrigerator option would be considerably cheaper at around $4300... the fridge is less... You can then use the Amazon Solar Panel kit.. hell, 2 of them <$800. And you are into it for $2000.

STILL, super expensive unless you want to be off-grid 100% all the time smile Which is not a bad thing wink

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Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#178554 - 08/04/09 04:34 AM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survi [Re: Todd W]
Cyblade Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 64
I think that if they whoever they might be would go the easy route build a device big enough to take out a major city then build a few more and pop them while in an airplane over the city of their choice. Think about all the chaos the would happen if they emp'd say New York, Washington dc, and LA and then just for fun they set off a few above our ports and electrical grid control stations. Heck fry the grid in New York and LA at the same time and we'd have to call troops home to contain that mess do it in the summer and the rioting would never end cause people would riot and loot for food and water and people would die in the heat and New Yorks pretty much our financial capitol they take that out and the repercussions would be enormous.

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#178556 - 08/04/09 05:11 AM Re: One Second After -- novel about post-EMP survi [Re: Cyblade]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
The electrical grid is sensitive and controlled from key points you don't have to fry TONS of points to hurt the majority of the USA... wink Doesn't even require an EMP.

Being prepared is a way of life smile
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