Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Since life is full of choices, though, I'll choose to make plans for survival even though the condo pancakes and I choose not to move. I've gotten several ideas here that are helpful.

If you do choose to go with a local rental unit (that would be easily accessed after a disaster), put a bike in the unit. It would serve as pretty good transportation if your car gets flattened. It could also serve well in carrying cargo if you puts racks and panniers on it.

> If you do end up needing to go 'shopping'leave leave a cheque. Prepare
> this cheque before you go in.

Good idea. I'd bet a list of stuff taken would suffice, with contact information. I can do that.

Although others have panicked at the thought of looting, I noticed that in New Orleans police not only provided aid and protection as people looted grocery stores for food and water, the officers defended their actions. I have no fear of being shot by the manager - we know each other by sight; if he's there, I'll make arrangements if possible (or leave if he asks). If the manager is not there, and it's been days with no end in sight, I'm comfortable that police reaction will be the same as in New Orleans. I don't recall looters being shot on sight, looters shooting each other, and so on. No hysteria there that I recall.

Katrina was very unusual, but I'm planning on a similar situation in my area if there is a major earthquake: No way out, no way in, and long term survival in doubt. If everyone is fed and watered by FEMA in a few days, no problem. But I'm planning on a worst case scenario, and shopping at the local store is in the game plan. I'm using Katrina as my scenario, and Katrina was a disaster.

One of the interesting things is our local geography. Without getting specific, I live on what is locally known as the Peninsula. For those not familiar with the area, see this tinyurl of Google maps:
http://tinyurl.com/29fluh
which shows the peninsula. I live near the middle of the peninsula between San Francisco and San Jose on the Bay side (as opposed to the Coast side). If you look at the map, you'll see lots of roads on the Bay side and white on the Coast side - mountains on the Coast side - that's where the Pacific Plate and the North Amercian Plate rub up against each other.

The San Andreas Fault is on the coast side of the peninsula (you can see a reservoir on the map where 92 crosses 280 - that's the fault), and the Hayward Fault is across the bay running through Hayward, Oakland, and neighboring towns. Depending on where the earthquake hits, there may be no two-day hike that leads to safe areas and stable ground. Again without getting specific, age and health play a relationship to what a two-day hike is.

I realize I'm throwing up hitherto unknown objections to a good idea, and I'm not trying to shoot it down - I hadn't considered hiking out, as I don't think it's possible. However, I'll reconsider. I do know that a two-day hike for you is not doable for us. This means a bigger load for more days.

A storage locker outside the area is also an idea, but I'd have to make a guess on where "outside the area" would be.

Maybe I've been too locked in on surviving in place, and I need to consider some way to get to another area. I'm drawing a blank on it inow, but I'll keep at it. Age and health play a role in bailing out. If we try to hike out and can't, where will we be stuck? Are we better off staying home? Questions that have no answers, only judgments and consequences.

That's a problem I'm all too aware of.

I have no hope of the government rebuilding - all I want is for my wife and me to survive till rescue. I want us to have food, water, and shelter until rescuers can either get us out or provide supplies while they work on bigger problems.

While some may think Katrina was a one-time event, I want to plan on it happening here as the result of an earthquake; if it doesn't happen in my life, well and good. But I'm not counting on FEMA to come get me hours after the big one hits.

By the way, my local government has excellent CERT training, and representatives of the local government have expressed the opinion that when the major quake hits, the area will never recover and be rebuilt to its current glory. I look to New Orleans and agree.

My goal is survival for a long time till rescue. Then we see how well-financed our earthquake insurance company is.

While I agree that the military will arrive at some point, I look to New Orleans for my lesson on that. I have no expectation of help from my government for days at the very best, for weeks probably.

Given my geography, I'm not convinced roads will be opened any time soon - there are only two major highways on the peninsula, and I expect them to be impassable from overpass collapse, debris, and dead cars. There is one rail line, but it, too, goes over city streets on a number of viaducts, and any earthquake may twist the rails enough to stop traffic.

Depending on what bridges drop, our best be may be the Bay.

I agree, though, that our best bet is to survive in place because that's where the aid will come. I'm considering some alternative shelter, though, as the result of another post concerning trying to hike out. I need to take into account age and health, though, and whether a shelter reachable on foot in a day or two is 'out of the area.'

The entire West Coast is prone to earthquakes in high-density areas, of course, so this is not an idle exercise only for the San Francisco Bay Area. My particular problem is being on a peninsula with only two major highways for transportation, both subject to traffic-stopping damage in an earthquake (one is a stone's throw from the San Andreas Fault for much of its length).

No businesses in this area that have cafeterias and such - but there are gas stations with snack foods, lots of cheap restaurants, and small mom and pop grocery stores, in addition to a couple of large supermarkets. The food trucks are there and on their lunch schedule for all the auto repair shops, radiator fixers, lumber yard, and other places that have a few employees. If the earthquake hits around noon, we're all in luck. If I were in Silicon Valley, I'd have my pick of companies with quality chefs and gourmet food to match. :->

No guerrilla gardening, though. This is not an area where there are vacant lots available. Land is too expensive not to have it built on.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think about using a car as my survival shelter. We've got water and Mainstay (I think) marine survival rations in our trunks, but if the quake hits at night, they'll be in the garage, so I'll think about street parking.

I'll give a lot more thought on storage rental. The problem in my area is that land is so expensive there is only one I know of in the area, and it's under an aerial cloverleaf freeway interchange. I'll have to look into this further and see what's in walking distance, if anything.

Now we have a better handle on where you are located and the damage that would be done if San Andreas let go. What time of day will the Big One hit? If you expect your building to immediately collapse the issue is really academic, you will be part of the building. However, if you are home, you need to get out quickly. I would maintain a large kit (clothes, food, cooking supplies (campstove), water and water purification/filters, hygiene et al) in my car or cars, and at the first rumble get that car or cars to the street, you and it might survive.

If you dress and grab a bag the delay may hurt your chances. How long does it take to get from your condo, into your car and onto the street? A lot of buildings will remain standing but will be totally unsafe to reenter.

When I lived in a condo I always backed in because it was easier/safer than backing out -- getting out was faster too. You need to be able to get your car to the street with minimum delay.

If you are out and about (work, movie, whatever) and you take your car, the kit is with you should the Big One strike.

I'm curious as to why you think none of the buildings around you are going to be standing after an earthquake. Even in (or especially in) extreme active seismic zones of California, I don't think the buildings just collapse into rubble, most, if not all of the buildings have to meet minimum safety codes. Sure, they might not be a safe to live in afterwards, but I don't ever recall seeing a residence completely demolished from a single earthquake. I just say that because that kind of thinking severely limits your possibilities, and could be dangerous if you've already written off the possibility of storing stuff inside your condo. If everything does collapse, why would you even bother to shelter in place?

One upside to earthquakes (if there is an upside), is that even if your building is severly damaged, there's still a good chance that at least some of the stuff is recoverable. It might be crushed, it might be dirty, but at least it's not contaminated by flood or strewn all about by a tornado.

Carrying a weeks worth of food and water is probably not possible. Hitting the local markets, I dunno about that. Being around a bunch of desparate people fighting for food and water, right after a major catastrophe isn't the first place I'd want to be. I'm not even going to get into the fact that taking stuff from a market is stealing, plain and simple. But I won't push it any further except to say, how would you feel if while you were out looting, someone passes by your place or car and decides to take what little supplies you have left?

If you're really convinced that nothign around you will be standing, the only option is to find a place within walking distance (since there won't be any roads), but far enough away and stable enough to still be standing after the Big One. Maybe a friends basement?

EDIT: Now that I know where you're located, it's easier to see the situation. Anything short of SF breaking off and sinking into the sea, there should still be ways of exiting. Freeways might be down, but there are plenty of roads and other paths out. This is one situation where I think a bike might come in handy.