musings on firearms and changing opinions

For the longest time, I was not a fan of guns. A few times in high school I shot a .22 rifle or 12 gauge, but I never had any desire to own one.

A couple of years ago, my martial arts instructor invited me to do some target shooting with him. I politely declined, saying that I didn't really care for guns all that much. My wife and I don't like it when our kids want to play the video games that have gun controllers.

I once took a CCW course, but only because I wanted to carry a knife bigger than the legal limit here. When I inquired about the same course in the city I currently live in, I was informed that it is darn near impossible to get a permit from our county sheriff.

Recently I've been thinking more and more that at least a good working knowledge of the use and maintenance of firearms would be valuable. I have even briefly thought of carrying a hand gun, although as I just stated, I would not be doing so legally.

But I'm quite certain that I don't have the right mindset to truly carry a firearm in a safe and responsible way. I am not saying that in a self defense situation that I would not kill someone who I truly believed to be a deadly threat to me or my family, but that would be an absolute last resort(as it would be for most people).

My preferences are for short range self defense tools and tactics. I know this is not always practical, but I often consider the least violent (lethal) tools and techniques that could be used.

I'm really on the fence at this point...I know, I know...you can't be on the fence when it comes to issues of life and death. I suppose that I could ask my MA instructor if the offer still stands, and get some experience and educate myself and then see where my attitude is...

Ideas of how to proceed?

Just like you say, I'd probably see if the offer from your MA instructor is still availible. Alternatively, you can take a hunter safety course, although that will tend to be geared more towards long guns, but the principles of safety are the same.

If you just want to go shooting, you can find a shooting range nearby that rents weapons to shoot. There you can try different weapons and get information from the people at the range.

As a complete alternative to lethal force in the form of a firearm, you could go to Taser's website and purchase a taser, like the police use. They end up costing the same as a pistol, but the "ammo" costs $50 a shot (one cartridge). Tasers can be used at a distance, up to 15', or in close range as a stungun.

I would suggest that you contact the NRA and ask them about what gun safety courses are available in your area. The NRA has courses that will start you off from the very basics and you can work up to becoming as proficient as you choose.

I agree that a general working knowledge of firearms can be very helpful regardless of what decisions you make regarding gun ownership and carrying a weapon if you are able to obtain the proper permit for your area.

Once you have taken the basic introductory course, if you then decide to look into purchasing a firearm I would suggest you start by asking your NRA instructor for some assistance in selecting the type of weapon that will best fit your needs (home defense, carry weapon, long gun vs. handgun, etc). I would also recommend looking for a local shooting range that rents guns so that you can try out several types of weapons and get some experience shooting them.

In addition, if you haven't already, I would also start educating yourself about gun laws including federal, state and especially local. In many states gun laws vary from county to county and even city to city. Then finally I would research the laws of your state regarding the use of lethal force and self-defense using weapons.

Good luck with your self-education.

Most everyone could use exposure to firearms even if they don't own any.
Helps to demystify the subject.
A fairly large source of misinformation is from people who's only exposure is watching movies and TV.
A lot of people I have encountered with prior negative views have changed their mind when exposed to real experiences.
Then again Katrina did have some impact as well.
Remember the NRA is both a lobby group and a training organization.
There is not a better place to start in terms of safety and skills than the NRA.
you could even join a shooting club, most members are more than glad to help new members and let you try their toys.

These are just some random thoughts - hopefully something useful can be gleaned from this.

I'd like to second what kghirardi said: everyone could use some exposure to firearms. Not only does it demystify the subject, and make firearms much, much less intimidating, but people should know how to safely handle an arm. Should you, or your children find one unattended you should be able to render it safe. Likewise, children should be taught what to do in the event the find an anattended arm. This is general knowledge that everyone (in my opinion) should possess, like how to start a fire. The below is not for everyone...

A firearm may never be needed. In fact, for most of us it never will, at least not in defense of life and limb. However, when it is needed nothing else is an adequate substitute.

A firearm takes a serious commitment. You must take care to learn the safe operation of an arm and ensure safe storage. If you choose to use it in a defensive role the operation of it should be second nature - anything less might be adequate, but it very well may not.

Everyday carry of a firearm is an even more serious commitment. Extreme care must be taken in learning the law. Obtaining a permit is a difficult process - especially in states like the ones you and I live in. There are places you can carry - and places you cannot and it is imperative to know the difference. You absolutely cannot drink (not even one) when carrying. Your friends and family may criticize you as paranoid. Toting a shooting iron is hard work - even the lightest among them become cumbersome late in the afternoon. You will come to dress around your gun - no one should ever, ever see it unless you choose for them to.

A firearm must never be presented in a confrontation unless you are fully prepared to use it. To do so otherwise will not only endanger you, but others, as well, as you may arm your antagonist. You must also give some thought to potential legal aftermath of a shooting, even if fully justified.

Okay...now that that's out of the way...

It sounds daunting, and in a way it is. There's a lot to learn and consider, and not consider lightly. However, carrying a firearm will bring you peace of mind. A firearm should not be your sole source of confidence; rather, confidence should come from within. However, it will provide confidence that you can efficiently handle a much broader set of scenarios, and defend yourself and your family.

Like you, I want to use the least amount of force needed. Particularly becuase I'm cheap and lazy, and partially becuase I still have have the odd nightmare about the one serious fight I was ever in. As you said, it is the absolute last resort- well, not quite. Having someone reading your will is. I don't EDC a sidearm, but the thing that would change that is not relocation to less savory area but having someone who was depending on me, like a spouse or kids. But my reasoning isn't for everyone- don't take it at a nudge in either direction, except to learn more so you can make an informed decision for yourself.

Even if you don't buy, I think you should learn how to shoot and how to shoot enough different models and types of firearms that you can figure things like safeties and mag releases out if you have to pick up a strange one. Keep in mind that for people who only know how to shoot, I'd tell them to learn basic armed and unarmed hand to hand techniques. I think everyone should not only know how use a firearm, but also the bare hands, sticks, staves, knives and the random piece of small furniture, just like I think everyone at some point should learn to drive stick and ride both a motorcycle and a horse. All of these are parts of the martial arts- I say take your instructor up on the offer if it is still open.

And don't be surprised if you enjoy yourself.

"...I'm quite certain that I don't have the right mindset to truly carry a firearm in a safe and responsible way..."

I am pretty much hung up on that statement...

If you get a chance check out this post I started awhile back...http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=107874. I got a lot of useful info from all the replies.

Gun Safety

The true meaning of gun control
Rich “Raspy” Shawver

A very important subject the newest user and to the crustiest of the old guard. Initial training should be more than reading writings such as this. It really requires hands on instruction from a certified instructor. You can’t ask an essay, questions. It can also not show you what it is talking about. To the old coots out there you to can benefit from periodic review of the procedures. Now don’t take offence at the coot reference I’m one too. How many bad habits have you picked up through familiarity or shear sloppiness?

I am not a certified safety instructor. Just a person that has dealt with firearms for many years. You may take these ramblings for what they are worth. So don’t take them as gospel. Get a second or even a third opinion.

You think it can’t happen? How many feel comfortable using a knife? That’s about the time you end up going, ”Ah (What a bear does in the woods.) Can somebody get me the bandages or maybe this will need stitches.”

I refer to gun safety rather than firearms because this can range from the most insipid BB gun to an 18inch navel cannon. They don’t all use fire. Safety concerns and practices should be initiated upon approaching the weapon you are about to use not when you have actually gotten a hold of it. Don’t ever treat a lesser weapon as something lesser as they can have just as grave consequences as their bigger brethren can. “Oh it’s just a BB gun. Have you ever been shot by one? Hurts don’t it? And as the old saying goes “You’ll shoot your eye out kid.” Fact my mom actually shot out my uncle’s eye with a bb gun when they were kids. There have been documented cases where even the mighty grizzly bear has been killed with a 22. Besides when you take short cuts with the lower powered ones the practice will eventually creep into the use of the higher-powered ones. This can eventually lead to a lethal combination.

Now the rules:
1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
2. Know the weapon.
3. Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy or kill.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to shoot.
5. Maintain a minimum state of readiness.
6. Know your target.

Why this order? Most consider number 3 to be the primary rule of safety. This is very true. But the first two are before you approach it, number 3 starts when you get to it.

What do these rules mean?

1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded.

With the exception of combat during a war more people have probably been killed or injured by an empty gun than any other reason. The excuse of I didn’t know it was loaded just won’t fly. If you are handling a gun it is your responsibility to know. Even then you could be wrong. Don’t take the chance. Even if you have just finished unloading it act as if it is loaded.

NEVER, repeat NEVER take another persons word that a gun is unloaded. Check it yourself. Even if you saw the other person check it anyway. Make it a habit. The gun is now your responsibility. An experienced shooter will respect your responsible attitude. If the other person starts squawking about trusting them it is a sure sign they do not deserve that trust.

Treating an unloaded weapon differently can lead to bad habits. An instant of inattention or forgetfulness could lead to a tragedy. If you develop bad habits with that unloaded gun eventually you will do the same thing with a loaded one.

I know of a person who was practicing with his gun in his living room. Dry firing at various targets around the room. While taking a break he decided to cycle some rounds to check the action. This happened to be a semi-auto. Later he was sure that the gun was empty. He went back to dry firing. Surprise, surprise a loud bang ensued. Fortunately the only casualty was the TV set. It could have been worse. He had been earlier targeting the family pet for a moving target.

Others around you have no way of knowing if it is loaded or not. To say the least they will be justly upset if you do something in their eyes that is unsafe or down right stupid. If they know gun safety they will assume it is loaded and may act accordingly. You may not be overly pleased with that reaction.

How could you be wrong? You missed one. You forgot. Someone else loaded it. It’s a different gun. There are many different ways it could be loaded.

2. Know the weapon.

How can you use a gun safely if you don’t know how it works? This is where hands on with an instructor really comes to the fore. You see it demonstrated and can ask questions. Even if you are an old pro at gun-handling odds are you haven’t handled them all. Different makes and models have different quirks. Even different years of the same gun may have different features. A safety added, removed or how it operates may have changed. Don’t be embarrassed to ask about something you are not sure about. It won’t show that you are foolish or any the less knowledgeable. It could be a senior moment. It shows you are conscientious about safety. Only a fool would scorn you. Those that are know what they are doing will respect you all the more for your intelligence.

Here is a classic example that I heard about many years ago of ego overriding good sense. While setting up a raid a FBI agent made a foolish error in judgement. Remember this is a professional trained in the use of a wide variety of firearms. He was issued a submachine gun. Now some subs operate from a closed bolt but others operate from an open bolt condition. Well the model he was issued was of the open bolt style. Never having been exposed to a weapon of this type he made his mistake. Thinking to ready the weapon he proceeded to close the bolt. Grasping the lever on the side of the bolt he squeezed the trigger to ease the bolt forward to the closed position. You guessed it. It slipped. Several uncontrolled rounds being fired were the results. Fortunately the only casualties were the raid being compromised and the reputation of the agent involved. It could have been much worse. But a few simple questions would have been a lot less embarrassing.

Overweening pride is no excuse. If you have a doubt or question ask.

3. Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy or kill.

Always control the muzzle. Be aware of where and what it will hit at all times.

When a gun goes bang the bullet goes where it is pointed. It has no brain you need to supply that. The projectile will make a hole in anything it encounters along its path until it runs out of energy. That’s its purpose in life. Those resultant holes will at least damage if not outright destroy what they are in. If it is a living creature man or beast this can be injury or death as a final outcome.

Unless you have a very good reason never point it at people. The exception would be a self-defense situation. Outside of it being downright rude. It can lead to an outcome that you will not enjoy. That other person will be justifiably upset with you for pointing it at them. They may react badly. If they are armed they could shoot you in self-defense. The police may even get involved. It is called brandishing and terroristic threats. You had better have a good reason for your actions or it could cost you dearly in both time and money. The excuse of it was just a joke does not work. Even if you are in the right it could cost you.

Additionally along this line of thinking, have the sights properly adjusted. It doesn’t do a whole lot of good if you aim at one thing and hit something else. The sights need to be adjusted to a range that is appropriate for the intended use. You don’t sight a high-powered long-range rifle for 20 feet. Conversely you don’t sight a pistol or shotgun in for 200 yards. There is some practicality in the equation. Sure, sure except on the range you will not be shooting exact ranges. You will have to adjust the point of aim from experience to compensate for ballistics. When shooting at a range you should practice at varying distances to keep this skill sharp.

4. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to shoot.

The time difference between finger on the trigger or outside the guard is insignificant. If you are on the verge of using the gun in most cases you are keyed up. If something startles you the slightest twitch could cause you to pull the trigger even though you don’t intend to. The tension you are under could easily cause you to clench your hand meaning your trigger finger without even being aware of it. That is until you receive the further shock of a very loud noise. You may hit something or someone you don’t want or intend to.

5. Maintain a minimum state of readiness.

The situation you find yourself in will be the determining factor. Most of the time this means unloaded. It should be obvious that an in house defensive weapon or one being carried for near term use should be loaded and near ready. As firing time approaches the state of readiness increases to the firing point.

At the range keep it unloaded and the action open until ready to fire. Most ranges have rules to this effect.

In hunting this means keep it unloaded until you reach the hunting area. Depending upon the type of hunting that is intended the level would vary. If you are grouse or other bird hunting it needs to be fully loaded and ready to go except for the safety being on. Ready to disengage the safety as the gun is brought to the shoulder for the shot.

Additionally when hunting in a situation where there is a high probability of loosing control of the weapon it should be unloaded or at the very least the action needs to be open. Actions such as climbing into a tree stand, crossing a fence, climbing up or down a steep embankment and fording a stream. All of the kinds of things, that can easily lead to slips and falls. Then who knows where the gun would be pointed if it happened to fire from being dropped? If you do have such a fall be sure that you also check that the barrel has not become obstructed with dirt or debris.

6. Know your target.

If you are not sure what you are shooting at don’t pull the trigger. Additionally you need to be aware of what is behind your target. You just may miss. It happens even to the best. The bullet may pass through the target. It would then hit something else. Maybe something very important. You also need to be aware of the possibilities of ricochets. Bullets have been known to bounce in funny ways.

In hunting never shoot at that rustling in the bushes. Make sure you actually have a real target in your sights before firing. The imagination can play tricks on you. Be sure, it is better to miss an opportunity than be in the middle of a calamity. The way the world works even if that rustle is a world record trophy you’re going to miss. But if that noise is hunter Joe Schmoo from down the road. You probably hit him. Not a good situation to be faced with. Even if you miss he may very well be upset enough to return fire.

The same basic concepts apply to self-defense. Positively identify your target. You DO NOT shoot through things, at sounds or shadows. That is a good way to shoot at an innocent victim. You hear of too many cases where a teen or spouse is shoot for slipping in at a late hour. You sure don’t want this to be you.


These rules are the core for good gun safety. But by no means the complete story. Being long winded by nature I figure I will cover a few more situations of concern. But by no stretch of the imagination everything.


IT’S FOR THE CHILDREN.

At least that’s the phrase used to try taking guns away. It and some of the other methods of dealing with kids and guns is wrong. The most effective method is education not fear.

It doesn’t matter. How tight or what devices you use to lock up a weapon. They will eventually fine a way around it or you will forget now and then. Regardless of how well you hide it. They will find it. Notwithstanding attempts to place it beyond their reach. They will reach it. When curiosity drives they will somehow find a way. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but with time the seeking mind and nimble fingers can and will defeat or circumvent any obstacle you put in their path. Even if you maintain perfect vigilance [and you won’t]. They can be exposed to firearms in so many ways outside your home.

Your only hope is to remove the mystery. Allow your children handle, even fire your weapons under your close supervision of course. Let them know that when they are mature [not age but responsible] enough They will be able to do so on their own. Never set an age on any activity for children. Set standards that when they have shown that they can take responsibility for their actions. They will receive said responsibility. This not only gives them incentives in handling firearms but in everything in life

Even at an early age take them along shooting. Not only teach but also demonstrate proper gun safety. Don’t be to surprised if you make a goof that the might correct you. Saying “ I thought you told me?” Thank them and praise them for being on the ball. When teaching children never scream, rant or rave and most of all do not belittle them. Making mistakes is not dumb or stupid it is the way children are. You correct mistakes and definitely praise good work. In fact there should be more praise than correction. It should go something like this. “You did good here, here and here. You forgot this. Next time you will do better.” Positive reinforcement works much better than a negative approach.

Instead of prying around they will be trying to earn your trust to show they can do it the right way.

The NRA sponsor’s the Eddie Eagle Program geared specifically towards youngsters. This is an outstanding resource to use.

Maintain in proper working order.

Regular cleaning and general maintenance is essential to proper operation. If something doesn’t work right or there is a question about the condition get it to someone that knows for sure. The early M-16’s suffered from carbon buildup from the ammunition compromising the gas system. Leading to short cycling and failure to feed problems. They even produced a comic book on cleaning to overcome the problem. If you see signs of problems such as damaged brass get it to a gunsmith. Although with training and experience you can learn some portion of gunsmithing to do it yourself.

Ammunition:

Use proper storage to keep from damaging it.

If you do not keep it in the original box make sure it is well labeled. Not only for safety concerns but remember some firearms work better with specific loads.

Use the correct ammunition for the gun in question. Even though it fits it may not work correctly. If you have an older weapon that is not rated for it. You then stuff it full of modern rounds such a +P and +P+. You could end up with some doctor picking pieces of the action out of your face. Not a real pleasant way to spend the rest of your day.

Be careful if using reloaded ammunition. Reloading is a great way to extend your budget. Either do it yourself or be very confident in the skills of whomever you get it from. An error in reloading can result in anything from a failure to fire to pieces flying in every direction. Although reloading precautions and the attendant dangers is a matter for a different discussion.

Don’t mix and match what ammunition you carry. No not bullet type but caliber. Only carry the ammo for what you are carrying. If because you are carrying several weapons. Keep the different rounds in different locations. Keep them separated. This is to avoid putting the wrong one in the wrong place. This example was shown to me when I was in scouting. The local game warden conclusively showed what a danger this could be. He took an old junker 12-gauge shotgun. He took a 20-gauge shell and allowed it to slide down the barrel. This could easily happen if you had a mix of 20’s and 12’s in your pocket. He then loaded a 12. After fixing the shotgun he fired it with a string from cover. The end result was what he showed us at the safety lecture. Very impressive to say the least. About half way down the barrel a hole with a large curl of metal and obviously some missing pieces. It shows how easily a smaller caliber round could slide into and become an obstruction of the barrel with devastating results.

It doesn’t go bang.

This condition can be caused by a number of reasons.

Its not loaded. Why?
You forgot.
It failed to chamber the next round from the magazine.
Could be operator error.
A magazine malfunction. A bad mag. Or an improperly seated one.
A gas system problem.
ETC.
If you know the reason. Fix it. If you don’t know it would be best to discover the reason.

A misfire could be a bad round or a light strike from the firing pin.

A hang fire. This is where a round does a slow burn. Unless there is a very pressing reason such as a combat or defensive situation wait about 30 seconds with the weapon pointed at the target. This delay is to allow the round to finish the burn still confined in the chamber. If you eject immediately and it finishes in the open air, while it may not kill you it could ruin your day depending where it is at the time.

A squib round is a weak or no powder charge shot. The indication of this would be by a weak sounding report or odd feeling recoil. The danger of this is the bullet could be lodged in the barrel. If the next round is fired this could lead to rapid and uncontrollable disassembly of the weapon. Not a real good practice to become involved in. The actions that need to be taken are to immediately unload and check the chamber and barrel. This may or may not require a trip to the local smith for removal.

The Safety(s)

A “Safety” is a mechanical device built into the weapon by the manufacturer. Its function is to minimize the chance of an accidental discharge. Note I said minimize not prevent.

A “SAFETY” IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR SAFE HANDLING PRACTICE.

Use it but do not rely upon it. The use of a safety is part of keeping a weapon at the minimum readiness level. Being a mechanical device it can fail. Depending on the type it will only block the pull of the trigger it can still fire if dropped.

Never defeat a safety device. Yes I know some of them are a royal pain in the neck. Although on some others and I have a lower opinion, about 3 feet lower in fact. Especially on a firearm intended for defensive use. If happenstance requires you to use it in self defense expect to face time in a court room one way or the other be it criminal or civil. If you have defeated a safety device expect to be painted as a bloodthirsty maniac. Whose sole purpose is to kill. You are not a victim defending yourself. But a beast stalking your prey. Looking and hoping to find someone that you could murder under the guise of protecting you and yours. “Look he/she intentionally defeated a safety device to make it even deadlier. Yes I know it is a bunch of bull. Just hope someone like me is on the jury.


Wear eye and ear protection whenever possible.

Sure in a defensive situation or when hunting they might get in the way. But the vast majority of round that you fire over your lifetime will be at a range. Whether a formal range, backyard shooting or and impromptu session on an outing.

At a range there will be smoke and flames. Add in brass flying from autos, pieces of bullets shaved by the forcing cone of revolvers and back splash from rounds hitting solid objects there are a lot of things flying in the air at a range. As the eyes are so vulnerable wrap-a-round shooting glasses is the only sensible way to go. Besides an eye patch is not quite my style. The loss of depth perception can really affect your accuracy in the future.

Hearing loss is cumulative. Muffs or plugs are your choices to minimize the damage. Whereas if your shooting is done at an indoor range you might want to use both due to the increased levels from reflection.

Spending your senior years running around going, “Eh, Wud you say” is not fun to contemplate. You may end up doing it anyway but why rush it.


Drink and drugs

Anything that impairs your thinking processes is a huge mistake. This should include some over the counter medicines.


Is there more to safety than this. Sure. But this should get you on the right track.

Everyone here might enjoy Tom Gresham's brand new site: www.GunTalk.tv

All the safety videos and a number of others are free, the rest require a modest subscription. Some good stuff for the enthusiast as well as those will little familiarity with firearms and looking to gain some basic knowledge. All the videos are short, 2-5 minutes for most. I like that I don't have to set aside a good deal of time, can just view them as I have a spare few minutes.

www.GunTalk.tv

Even if you don’t want to carry or own a firearm learning to use and care for one is just one more bit of information that may one day save you life or even more important save the life of those you love.

"I once took a CCW course, but only because I wanted to carry a knife bigger than the legal limit here."

Carrying a knife for defense is as much or more of a responsibility as carrying a firearm. As an ex-LEO and self-defense instructor I have taught courses on knife defense and survived knife attacks. Like a firearm if you draw it you better be willing to use it. One of the things that is the hardest to get people to understand and believe (it took 75 stitches to make me a believer) is that within 20’ a knife is more deadly than a gun unless you have it pointed and ready to shoot.
Most people get their view of a knife fights from movies where no one gets hurt much till the end. But you have to remember if your close enough to cut or stab some one they are close enough to do the same to you and if you get in a fight with a knife you will suffer injuries.
A couple of other considerations is the amount of blood involved in a knife encounter is enough to send most people into shock, especially when they realize some or most of it is theirs. Also while the number of knife encounters is much lower than firearms encounters they have a higher percentage that result in death.

Ors:


(I'm really on the fence at this point...I know, I know...you can't be on the fence when it comes to issues of life and death. I suppose that I could ask my MA instructor if the offer still stands, and get some experience and educate myself and then see where my attitude is...)

The fact that your MA instructor is familiar and training with firearms schould tell you somthing.

I have even briefly thought of carrying a hand gun, although as I just stated, I would not be doing so legally.

I would not recommend carrying unlawfully. Depending on your state's laws, you could go to jail for a long time if caught.

Thanks Raspy -- excellent rules for safety.

Teacher

That's a wonderful summation of gun safety and etiquette. Much better than I could come up with.

I have been doing a "firearms literacy" program for New Yorkers for a while now. There's a lot of nonsense and mystery about guns in places where they are illegal and common among criminals, and they become almost a fetish object for both pro and anti gun forces.

I invite a few folks out here, we head out to the range. I bring a basic assortment of weapons, from a bolt-action .22 to an AK-47, as well as Glock and Ruger handguns in a variety of styles.

The first thing we do is the usual safety drills and the like, but then, I let them operate the guns. The reaction is universal for the handguns when you put them into the hands of someone who has been vigorously anti-gun.

"It's heavier than I expected"
"It's hard to shoot accurately"
"It gives me a feeling of incredible power"

They are also usually surprised that an AK-47 isn't a machine gun (well, at least not the ones they get to use, that is).

By the end, they know what gunfire sounds like, what is and isn't possible, and they also get a strong sense that the gun does not shoot itself.

People will actually say that? Out loud?

Maybe Sigmund Freud was right !!

Sounds like fun - where do I sign up?

I had someone say that to me once. It was one of those inebriated philosophical discussions in college. He went on and on about how he felt so incredible knowing that he was holding the power of life and death in his hand. I pointed out that in my martial arts training, I was learning lethal techniques, and "isn't that even more incredible? Having the power of life and death...in my own hands...with my own hands..."

But I also realized quickly what kind of responsibility comes with that kind of knowledge and power.

I'll admit something. I don't want to hurt anyone. I would hope that if I, or my family was in mortal danger, that I would respond appropriately...even if it meant taking someone's life. But the truth is, a person just doesn't know until a situation like that presents itself. I hope those of us who haven't had to deal with something like that never do.

Do you think there can be a balance between caring and compassion, and the ability to use deadly force when necessary?

Absolutely! We have 300,000+ troops doing that right now.

Same way for police they go between risking their life in hopes of saving alife and somrtime that means takeing a life. I hope to never again have to make the desicion to hurt or take another's life, but don't mistake my mild manner and kindness as weakness.

100'% agree. When I became an MP, I had to decide if I would use deadly force. The training I received helped, but I came up with the notion that if I had to use deadly force to protect an innocent or helpless person, I would, and logically, if necessary to stop someone who had already demonstrated than they would hurt that innocent person. I can understand people who would rather sacrifice their own lives rather than take another life-- their choice -- but cannot understand someone who, having the ability to prevent it, lets someone take another person's life by failing to act. IMHO, there is such a thing as morality and a moral duty to act. My version of the commandment is "thou shall not murder" not "thou shall not kill." There's a difference.

thats my take on that commandment also I just hope it's Gods too or I'm in a heap of trouble.

No, no he wasn't.

I think that is why one summer, my grandfather taught me basic first aid and started teaching me herbal plants and wilderness survival techniques.

The next summer, he started me on shooting and hand to hand. He wanted me to understand that healing was as great a power as harming, and both were in the same set of hands and the same mind.

This is my take on any weapon, especially a lethal one.
Weapons were primary invented to kill things. If it wasn't intended to bring down a beast for meat, then it was for killing a foe,i.e. a man.
Weapons are tools, like any other tool, they all have a purpose and a intended use. Some require more skills than others to use.

Fire arms are tools. They are a mechanical tool that controls an explosive blast, that is directed at an intended target.It's sole purpose is to kill. A badly directed shot maims,which is not the intended outcome, because the targeted individual survived to fight another day.The concept isn't hard to grap here,all Firearms sole purpose is to kill.
Shooting at tin cans, paper targets,flying clay disc's etc. is peacetime idle hours pursuits intended to keep your aiming eye sharp, and your reflexs quick. It is keeping your edge ready to use when you actually have to use your weapon for it's real purpose....and that is to kill.

If you aim any firearm at any foe, your message is: cease and desist...or die! In warfare it means; kill or be killed.

A loaded firearm aimed at your foe is not a friendly gesture.
It basically means that negotiations have failed or are non existant. It means that the user is deadly serious, don't test his will not to use it. It may be the last thing you do.

Once you pull the trigger, all bets are off and the game is on,
albeit a deadly one.

There can be no warm fuzzy feelings and thoughts of "what if!"
Once the deed is done, you live with it!

Too many people over think and analyze the out come, or how powerful they think they are at the given moment of no return.

This is horsecrap...
A firearm does not make you powerful, or that you hold any special power of life or death to be lauded over someone. If you actually think this way, you are a moron.
Any buttwipe can grab a gun and shoot someone with it. It doesn't make him powerful, or bad, or Godlike.

This why robbers are low life scumbags...they think the gun makes them one bad motherdrummer. "Gimme your cash, or I'll kill ya!" All gun using robbers should be excecuted by firing squad!Give them a taste of their own anal squeezings...

Robbery! There is no honor, no justification. It is an act of pure evil intended to create fear, and threaten someones life for monetary gain.
The victim was usually a random pick, based on the appearance of helplessness. ( weakness, defenseless )

The theive will not attack an individual if they know they are armed...because all gun yielding robbers are nutless cowards!

People who advocate the disarming of honest law abiding gun owners are milquetoast pussies who think the world should be
all kisses and hugs and lets play nice under the rainbow of love and happiness, with Bambi, Thumper, and Butterflies in the yard.

What a load of Bullsquat...

The world does not operate that why, and it never will!


If there were no fire arms in the world, no bows and arrows, no spears, no clubs, man would smash his opponents head with a rock!

No if's and but's about it!

As long as man has an attitiude problem with his foe's, he will
defend himself with a lethal weapon of choice. The fire arm seems to be weapon of choice around the world. It is acurate, deadly, and easy to use. Also quicker than lightning from a distance...no muss, no fuss.

To let any namby-pamby politican tell you, that the 2nd ammendment isn't about private ownership of firearms, is a pinko
jerk whose testicles probably haven't dropped yet!

One such nitwit campaigning right now comes to mind...can't name names,but he's Oprah's golden boy...this posturing moron actually says:

"I don't believe we need to be agressive with our enemies, I would sit down and talk with them and come to agreements".
What a dickless twit!

But, I digress....

Right now we the people have a dicision to make, and that is, are we going to defend our right to own and bear arms? Or, are we going to let right wing neo con's buffalo the high courts into taking that right away for good? They are trying to do so folks..
The extra thick layers of legalese manure spreading based on "national security" threats and or perceptions, are what is being used to usurp your and my freeedoms and constitutional rights.
You normally use all your ordinary tools as they are intended, for the purposes in which they are designed for don't you?
Yet, if you take a legal to own and operate firearm, and blow away some malcontents hide to kingdom come, this then is something that has to be taken away?
Hell, if I wanted too, I could just slam a claw hammer into the top of someone's head and achieve the same results as a gun...

Let's regulate, license, all claw hammers...

I am tired of all the wussyness. Political correctness is mind control, and the "Thought Police" play book.

Right now we got a cess pool full of Politico's and Pandering Wusses who what you and me to swallow the swill they are regurgatating.

I personally feel that I'd like to shove all their lying vebage
up their sphincter zones...

P.C. crap....I never bought into it. I never will.
Call a spade a spade, and whatever else you want to call it or someone else.

Oh!, did I hurt your feelings?...too damn bad!

People kill people regularly, and if you too intend to kill one of them, and the gun is the tool you chose to use, that was your choice.
Live with the outcome of your decision. You pulled the trigger.
It doesn't make you powerful. You aren't God. You play, you pay.
Don't want any guns around?
Then get ready to smash the enemies head with a rock...
and buy a rubber suit!

Stop playing a stupid game about it all!

There is a storm coming...and it will involve making all privately owned firearms illegal. Once we are disarmed, get ready for the gulags...

Stop thinking it can't ever happen here...it can, it has, it will again...get ready to defend your rights.

War Dog out

Hopefully the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) will rule correctly on DC vs Heller which will be heard in March 2008 and change the 2nd Amendment dynamic in a good way.

This sounds like someone I knew in grad school, VN era SEAL who knew about killing -- getting out with them never knowing you were there was the hard part.

Defending one's life or the lives of other innocents is why I keep firearms. Yes, I practice and play what-if scenarios; but I don't believe that all will be good if I do survive a deadly force encounter -- better than the alternative, but not good.