Lebanon evacuees were caught unprepared ?

I am sure most of you watched the lebanon/ Israel war on CNN news. Why were the Americans or lebanese evacuees caught unprepared in such crisis? A large majority of them escape with no water, food, or survival equipments. They relied entirely on milltary to rescue them off to Cyprus.

Examine the terrain and the political situation.

Going south is going TOWARDS mountains and the worst of the shooting (bad idea). North or East, and you are going towards mountains and rivers, and Syria. Who the US government doesn't have any formal relations with (can we say hostage or homeless, flip a coin and call it- your credit card won't work and no one will change money for you off the black market, assuming they dont' intern you).

Assuming you make it that far- Hezbollah would probably cut your throat or seize you has a bargining point, or the Isrealis would shoot you becuase you are trying to cross the border and they don't know who you are, if you go south. Or, you'd convoy up, and since the Isreali's don't know about your convoy, they bomb the road at the start and stop of it, making a kill zone for the cannons on the aircraft in question. If you somehow survive to go East into Syria, as I said, who knows. No US embassy, and the European embassies don't HAVE to take you if you look suspicious (more on that later) and as a result, won't.

If you go west, you've got the Med, and the Isreali's aren't very happy with anything leaving shore that they don't know about, aka, they sink it. Screaming "I'm an American, don't shoot" doesn't really help, even on the GAURD bands, becuase they know perfectly well that a lot of the Americans who are getting out look and sound like locals becuase they were locals. A lot of the people who are getting out look (and are) Lebanese or Palestinians who got out of the country while the getting was good. Even with a US passport, let's face it, Iran makes US hundred dollar notes that look just as good as the ones from the US Mint, so I have no doubt that they can fake passports. Oh, wait, they have. At best, assuming Isrealis bother to board you, they arrest you and stick you in hole that makes Gitmo look pleasent until they get around telling the US Embassy that they've got someone pretending to be an American and can someone come check this out.

Add in that Isrealis have removed from operation any airstrip in Lebanon big enough to put a C-130 down, and taken out all the bridges that cross all the rivers on the northern and eastern boundries.

In a nutshell, you have no where to go. War unto itself isn't filled with a lot of civilization. When the Isrealis and thier neighbors are fighting, there are no noncombatants in either sides' eyes, there are no uninvovled parties. If they think you are on the wrong side, they will shoot you, no fuss, no muss, no screwing around. This goes back a hundred years, to when the Zionist rebels and the Palestinian rebels would take breaks from killing eachother by killing British troops and territorial/colonial officials. And that's taking the typical Ameri.. sorry, short view of history, rather than that taken by people where to be considered a man you have to recite the names of your ancestors going back 5, 10, 20 generations of begatting and begetting. There is no reasoning, there is no bribing. You go to a safe place, and you STAY there until you are taken out to safety by someone big and scary enough that everyone steers clear.

No, when you are outside of your native land, if you need to evacuate, you contact your embassy, tell them who you are, where you are, and ask for thier advice. Follow it. Part of why I say that is, Lebanon is a country that records the names and passport numbers of entering westerners. Odds are, the Embassy had those numbers about ten minutes after the first IADF bird crossed the border. So they know you are in country, and they need to check you off, it is part of what it means to be an embassy. Also, evac points declared by an embassy are no-shoot areas- the Issies won't touch them, and Hezbollah would be out of luck with thier landlords (not to mention the Marines), so they won't shoot at it. We've publicly announced where they are.

Now, keep in mind, people who are going out are being packed in to maximum capacity. You have room for one, maybe two pieces of personal luggage, and they have to be small. The captain and crew of the vessel have no problem saying "your luggage goes back to land or you do", and are within thier rights. So you aren't seeing huge superBOBs with umpty-hundreds of hours of gear in them. Daypack, maybe up to the size of a medium ALICE pack or a large airline carry on, or a medium-large suitcase, and a shoulder bag. That is what you are going to be able to take out- the manual for this kind of thing hasn't changed since the fifties, and I know people who were evaced out Greece, Egypt, Lebenon, Liberia, Vietnam and the Cote de Ivory in US Navy-owned landing craft and aircraft using that manual. I know other who were issued it- the rules haven't changed. There is a set limit on what you can take for luggage, and again, no one is playing games, no one is bending rules- you follow them or you stay behind and take your risks.

Also keep in mind, these are by and large vacationers. Do you drag BOB with you to cross something like 8 or 9 time zones so he can lay on the beach next to you? No, not unless you've taken this to a level that I frankly am not sure is healthy. And they probably didn't have much warning, certainly not as much as the man on the street would have, becuase tourists stick to touristy places and they don't hear the rumors. Admittedly, there were no small number of tourists who were visiting family that stayed behind when they emmigrated- I dare you to leave you grandmother behind in a warzone AND look her in the eye as you take her stock of emergency water. If you can do both of those things, there are a few things I could say to you, but they aren't suitable for young ears. And there were no stockpiles left to buy within an hour or two of the airport being bit, which is when everyone realised that this was a for-real situation.

No, this is how evacuations occure. It's isn't fun, it isn't cool. It is dirty, hot, miserable, and usually leave you not only feeding the fish but dead broke. But it's better than staying behind and becoming a target.

I think in that situation I would rather buy new stuff. just grab passport and bill fold and split to the evac zone

That's the plan. BOB is your guide, he gets you to safety, after that, you're on your own.

I'd be willing to bet that CNN only interviewed the unprepared because the prepared folks were already long gone by the time the helpful CNN cameras showed up. A bunch of helpless whiners makes a better story anyway and they will probably get more face time.

Back in May, the U.S. State Dept. issued a warning not to go to Lebanon and if the they did to register with the embassy.

Forethought is better than handsight.

Those who were wise enough to not be in Lebanon to begin with were the best prepared. I can realize how many people are descendants from that region. I can realize how many people were back there also because they were born there. I can even realize it is/was the Paris of the Middle East and a good place to visit. What I can't see is a GOOD reason why those others out of the 25,000 Americans, 22,000 Britons, 50,000 Canadians, etc, etc, were over there to begin with.

Any rational person should see Lebanon was no place to visit since 1982 or before. The girl on FOX news complaining about it all at the American University at Beirut? She should have never gone over there, for any reason whatsoever. The same Beiruti guy I posted about previously gave up on that school before coming here in 1982. No sane Westerner should be in any country that houses a reknown terrorist militia that controls part of parliament.

I look at all of these helpless fellow American citizens being interviewed after being rescued by the Marines and I can't help but think: "What the heck are you doing over there to begin with, dummy?"

I'm finished ranting.

Wow, I guess I'm just an irrational person.

The majority of the people who were there were visiting family. The country has mostly been at peace other than a relatively localized population of headcases for 15 years. They Syrians left last year. If I had emmigrated, I would have thought it might be time and see about trying to get mom and dad to come out, or at least spend time with them.

Keep in mind that other than a few neighborhoods in Beruit (which the Isreali's are remodeling) and the south along the border, Lebenon was back to the condition it was in 1981, maybe even better. It used to be quite the tourist area, and up until two weeks ago, it was again. It has beautiful beaches, the majority of the population is largely non-political (being occupied and fought over by Isreal and Syria has habit of doing that; if you think that two weeks ago that the average man on the street in Beruit had any desire to see Isreal attacked, then you are just a fool) and they have (still have) some very good vinyards. Their education and health systems were some of the best in the region, comperable only to Isreal and Turkey.

Lebenon was fixed except for an infestation of rats in the basement. And if you think I weep for the past fifeteen years of rebuilding that it has taken to get a country back on it's feet depsite and in spite of that infestation, you are correct.

And then a portion of thier population, 10-25% depending on who's numbers you want to belive, had to go and screw it up. Saying that there was no reason to be there is such a bigoted and asinine statement, you might as well say that there is no reason for anyone to be in Kosovo or any other part of the former Yugoslavia. Or Vietnam. Or Eastern Europe. Or Northern Ireland. Or the United States, either individual cities or just the entire country!

Ironraven,

Okay, so here's my one and only rebuttal: A sane westerner to be in a country which houses a terrorist organization that IS a part of the government, which BLEW UP U.S.Marines in the biggest single loss of life in U.S. Military history since WWII, is hell-bent on DESTRUCTION of an ENTIRE neighboring population, and, by the way, just welcomed war with the U.S,. IS NOT rational. To add, a country that still has Syrians (don't let them fool you) and approximately 100-500 Iranian special forces for over 20 years.

You took me out of context, ironraven. I'm not a racist, I'm not a zealot, I'm not a bigot. I just think any westerner who was over there for any other reason than family or such needs a real education in history. No matter how much money was spent to rebuild, history in that part of the world was bound to repeat itself. Any person with a well-rounded education, secular and/or religious, could have told you Lebanon was a powder keg fixing to blow. My heart goes out to the good people that are there.

If you like to go visiting war-torn regions for humanitarian relief purposes, ironraven, that is a valid reason, more power to you. You're a stand-up guy and I don't take any offense. Just study history more, it repeats itself.

no offense, but the situation is and was much more complicated than your brief history might suggest.

No offense taken, I never suggested the brief examples I gave were a complete history and explanation.

Hmm....

You are siting an incident from 20 years ago as part of your explination. Spain and England have active terrorist cells that have been successful, which while tied to an international sponsor are home grown. 10 years ago, Mexico had a nice little insurgency going on. And Germany- why the last hundred years has been nothing but trouble. Or maybe going to visit Isreal, which is living proof that terrorism works. Oh, wait, you don't need a visa! All those guys we Americans get told the partial truth about, like George Washington and Ethen Allen and Francis Marion, they were terrorists to.

For the reference to a radical and extremely small minority in thier government without significant power within the government (they were elected becuase of thier extra-governmental power- democracy in action), look at the fundamentalist christian component in the American government- there have been several who have made comments that can not be interepreted any way but a desire to imprison, deport or "liquidate" of certain minorities in this country, which would end up including me. Hezbollah is no more the Lebenese government than the KKK is part of the American government (but I have zero doubt that there are white sheets in closets in the Beltway) or that the IRA is part of the English government becuase Shen Fain is a party. The KKK analogy is a little weak, admittedly, but while Hezbollah hasn't shown off SAMs yet in the past two weeks, the IRA had them, and the IRA was trying to get katyushas.

By your logic, no westerner should want to go to the UK.

I did not say you were a racist. I said you made a bigoted statement- there are plenty of people who see things from a very narrow view, usually the one that says that those from other countries have something inheriently wrong with them. Or that other countries are "screwed up". If I was going to call you a racist, I would have said it flat out, trust me. Have you ever seen me mince words here?

There are plenty of places where westerners go that in all honesty are barely above "pest hole" once you are out of the tourista areas. I'm not likely to go anywhere for humanitarian aid, but I will say that when two groups of irrational people decided to attack people who are sick and tired of thier crap, those people have commited at least a social faux pax, if not an out and out crime. I mourn the innocents and the destruction of reconstruction on both sides of that border. And the fact that my country is acting in a manner which I can only call embarrasing, which while not a direct contributor to all this, it sure ain't helping.

As for studying history, all I can say is, you don't know me or you would not have said that. Nor have you read my posts. I grew up studying this mess. I know the players, I know the factions. I know who's pissed at who for stabbing thier brother-in-law in a bar fight thirty years ago, and who's got tribal grudges going back seven hundred years while the media scratch thier head and come up with BS for why dates are significant. I know the nations who talk war but won't step in and the ones who talk peace with a dagger behind thier back. I also know which nations are at risk of having their military-intelligency-industrial trinity get out of hand and get them into a war they didn't plan on, and which ones really need to muzzle thier clerics. I know who get's public money from where, and when people announce secret sponsers, I have yet to have missed one. I've been calling terrorist targets since I was in high school, and my accuracy rate is well over 70%- the only times I'm suprised is when it's in Russia, too many factors in constant flux. I can't accurately predict is timing of an attack, but diplomatic trends I'm pretty good at. I'm one of the last Cold Warriors, and I always figured that the Middle East would be the flashpoint, not Germany, not unless someone intentionally lit a fire there.

This is what I do rather than go on dates.

Well, I stated my previous post was my one and only rebuttal to you ironraven and I stick to my word. My lips are zipped. Hope you feel better inside now.

Other than pity for your case of jingoism, I feel fine.

*blink* *blink* *wide eyed* Wow!