Batteries

I came across this article about rechargable batteries.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/11/13/the-best-batteries-for-your-buck-savings-experiment/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl5%7Csec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D234840

Does this ring true? Is a rechargable better than a Lithium battery?

I never had much luck with NiCads.

Blake

www.outdoorquest.blogspot.com

It depends on the use.

Rechargeables, especially high-quality rechargeables, are great in devices that you're maintaining regularly. The device may have some parasitic drain, and all batteries have a self-discharge rate. So I use rechargeables in places it makes sense for me and my patterns of use.

Primaries make more sense for long-term storage, as they can have a very low self-discharge rate, especially lithium primaries.

NiCds suck. NiMHs (especially Eneloops) can be very good, as can LIon batteries like 18650s.

They don't really suck, its just that most folks previously have been using chargers that suck.

NiCds are perfectly serviceable batteries and have very good and long life times i.e. up to 1500-2000 charge/discharge cycles. They can also deliver large Amperages i.e. a D-Cell can delivery upto 30A.

They can also be stored for years completely discharged then brought back to life with a decent charger.

The downsides are the overall capacity, self discharge rate and the memory effect. But no worse that Lead Acid technology. But saying that I have a couple of Fusionmax 800mA 1.2 NiCds (I don't know where they came from or even remember purchasing them) which are dated 09/2008 (I'm guessing that was the end of life date as NiCds haven't been available for sale for quite a few years in Europe) running quite happily in a TANK007 TK-566 Flashlight.

Don't throw away your NiCds just yet as they could be become quite useful in 10 years time if the supplies of Lithium and other rare metals become scarce.

I really can't see Lithium ever being in short supply as it is being aggressively recycled, but it could become a strategic tool of the politicians, of course, which is a different matter.

Really? I have always read that although the recycability of lithium from batteries is highly touted, the reality is that there is virtually no lithium recycling happening (at least in the US, reportedly). The process is complicated and expensive and does not make sense economically until the price of lithium goes far higher. It makes more financial sense to recycle the more valuable nickel and cobalt in these batteries than to recycle the lithium. See this and this as examples.

NiCd's can also tolerate overcharging that would eventually destroy other battery types, although it's not recommended. That's why devices like solar-powered (or more accurately, solar-recharged) garden lights typically use NiCd cells. Although the venerable Maglite Magcharger now ships with a NiMH battery stick, the equally venerable Streamlight SL-20X still uses a NiCd battery stick.

But if battery chemistries were girlfriends, I think I would rate NiCd as being "high maintenance". Treat her right and life is good. However, low self-discharge NiMH batteries have gotten so good that they are a convenient direct replacement for alkaline cells in most respects and in most consumer applications, although the older non-low-self-discharge cells are still common, so many consumers still may not realize that there's a newer, better kind of NiMH battery out there.

Come to think of it, I just found a box of old Panasonic NiCd C cells in the garage. I probably haven't touched them in 15 years. I should see what my Maha charger can do with them.

I just read the text at that link and I don't see any mention of lithium batteries specifically. The article seems to be referring to common alkaline batteries. But as I just mentioned in my other post (gosh, three consecutive posts in one thread--I'm shameless! ) low self-discharge NiMH batteries are basically viable direct substitutes for alkalines for most folks, especially for smaller sizes. The bigger C and D cells are a bit pricier to buy, which may put off some folks, but even alkaline C and D cells aren't exactly cheap nowadays either.

Buy a set of Eneloops and a good charger. It'll change your life. Okay, not really, but they're fantastic batteries.

I don't know that you can definitely say that lithium are "better" than NiMH - it depends upon the application. I will put lithium primaries in items that are going to be used infrequently and stored for potentially long periods of time - also where cold weather is anticipated or weight is really critical. Eneloops for just about everything else. They will save you a lot of money and cut down on your environmental footprint.

I carry Lithium in all my EDC flashlights. The flashlights must be able to operate in the cold. I'm experimenting with rechargeable Li-ion because of the high current they provide, and my flashlight must be brighter than yours. I don't have any experience with NiMH. It's good to hear NiCd batteries are good if you take care of them, but I personally have had bad experiences. Meanwhile, there are other options that are not as high maintenance, while still performing well. Alkaline batteries have no place in flashlights I carry away from home, unless there's no other choice.

My experiences with NiCds have been less than positive. I'm prepared to accept that the chargers I used weren't as good as the chargers I have now, but the NiCd cells I used put out a significantly lower voltage than equivalent alkalines and would poop out suddenly even after being properly cared for and recently charged. The memory effect also contributes to my negative opinion of them. I never got a decent number of charge cycles out of them.

For me, I'd rather use other battery chemistries and devices that won't overcharge them. I've had much better experiences with them.

My first 9.6v Makita NiCad battery packs lasted about 15 years. Sanyo NiMH AA's last around 10 years when they get to the 80% capacity mark and I give them to the kids. Energizer and Rayovac last 5-6, Radio Shack are more $ than the rest and last 3-4.
Anything Lithium Ion 2-3 years at most. I make sure if I'm buying a GPS, Radio, Camera, etc to buy the AA powered rather than the lithium ion.

Wow, that is almost exactly the opposite of my experience. I have LIon battery packs for my power tools that are ten years old and still good. I never had a NiCd pack last more than three. Weird.

That's not my experience. I have an old Palm Treo cell phone with a Li-ion battery. It's over 6 years old and still holds a charge like new. Li-ion has offered me the best experience with rechargeable batteries and has changed the way I view the abilities of rechargeable batteries in general.

You may have treated your Li-ion batteries in the wrong way. I can't recall ever letting that Palm Treo go below 40%, and I charge it every night. Some people tell me, even after hearing about my experience, to let that battery be completely discharged. I have to say with all due respect that I certainly will continue treating Li-ion in the same way I've been treating it.

You were doing the correct thing. Lithium ion cells work best when recharged often and not drained too far. But for long term storage, it is preferable to put them away at a 40% charge rather than a full charge.

Actually, that's why I keep non-rechargeable lithium batteries for flashlights that I think will sit for long periods unused. I want maximum capacity for those lights. But I will use lithium ions in certain EDC lights that I know I will use periodically and just top those off periodically.

Then again, the term "lithium ion" includes a range of similar but distinct battery chemistries so part of the difference in experience may be due to that, too. In particuarly, power tools usually use different lithium ion chemistries from consumer products like cell phones and digital cameras.