knives with partially serrated blades

Hi folks,

Does anyone like the partially serrated blades that are so common these days?

I have always used knives with a plain edge (except for on steak and a couple other things <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), but back around August I saw a Gerber paraframe packaged with the Gerber shortcut for a price that I couldn't pass up. I was looking for the shortcut anyway, and thought I'd finally try a partially serrated edge as a bonus. I've EDC'd the paraframe since then and have come to the conclusion that I'd be happier if it had a plain edge. I occasionally cut rope at scout meetings and thought the serrated section would be perfect for that task. However, it just seems to catch and get hung up. I bend a section of rope over the blade to make the cut. I haven't found any day to day chores where I use the serrations. They have ended up being wasted space on my knife edge and force me to use the part of the blade farther out from the handle to make cuts -- not what I'm used to but working okay.

So what do you guys cut with the serrations??? I'm curious to know if these blades are really useful or if it's all just a fad.

I hope its just a fad... I have yet to find anything except maybe bread, that cuts better with a serrated edge. I think maybe its got to do with the serrations looking "tough", but experience shows me its useless. And before somebody brings up cutting your way out of a downed chopper, that's what the double-saw-tooth on the BACK of the nine inch blade is for, in case you hadn't noticed, unless you're a SEAL or some other branch of the military, you're not gonna have ANY blade on you that will cut through the fuselage, and if you are carrying, you can do a LOT better then a serrated edge on a 2.something inch blade. I guess I should get off my soap-box now, but in my experience, serrated edges are unwanted window-dressing that suck, and while I'm all for choice, it's getting hard to find a good old high carbon, hollow ground, clip point, heavy blade, folder!!!

Whoa, excuse me... got carried away there for a minute... anybody else feel the same way???

Troy

I feel the partially serrated blade is mostly a marketing gimmick. OK, when they first came out they were cool. I got suckered and picked up a few partially serrated blades. Today these are my least/non used knives.

The current partially serrated blades seem to be manufactured backwards. It would make more sense to have the plain edge up close to the handle for clean precision cuts, and the serrated portion out at the end to provide an extended cut on tough rope or other materials. To my knowledge there is only one custom knife maker making a reverse partially serrated blade.

Even with tools like the Spyderco sharpmaker, I still don't like sharpening serrated blades, partial or otherwise. I'm not convinced the aftermarket sharpeners can match the original factory serrated edge.

I also use the flat edge of the Spyderco Sharpmaker to prevent rounding the tip of the knife. When you use the tri-angle edge of the stone (for serrated edges), the tip of the knife drags slightly on the stone when the end of the blade is reached. This will wreck the fine tip on any blade.

Same goes for blades made with thick blade stock. For the most part this again is a sales fad. They look cool, but the cutting ability is always compromised with thick stock. I pocket knife is a cutting tool, not a pry bar. I want mine optimized for cutting. If I need to pry I'll use some other tool.

My current favorite knives are Spyderco Calypso (full size and Jr), Al Mar Nomad, Al Mar Falcon, and Al Mar Sportsman. All use thin or moderate thickness stock, with a flat grind and plain edge. They sharpen easy, touch up easy, and cut like crazy.

TR (I like 'em thin, flat and plain)

I agree, I've never had much use for a serrated blade, give me a plain edge any day!

Try cutting yourself or someone else out of their seatbelt with a straight edge knife. Then you'll know a seriously important reason for carrying a partially serrated blade.

Well, as Pizzaman pointed out, they mostly seem to be backwards. That being said, I prefeer either a partially serrated blade, or a serrated blade with a straight edge in one knife. I think they are worth while one heavy, fiberous material, like webbing, rope or cardboard boxes. Curogated carboard is hard on edges, and I would say it takes about half the energy to cut them up with a serrated edge than with a plain blade. With some informal tests, I would say that serrated blades don't cut rope or webbing as cleanly, but much more quickly.

And they go through leather a lot better. If you are on or around reclaimed pasture land, you know what kind of weird stuff lies lurking in the underbrush a hundred years later. I've never had to cut my boot off to get unstuck, but it's been close a time or two.

In a survival knife the forward curve is crtical for shaving decent feather sticks. Serrations are on knives because knifemakers respond to fads and can charge money for them. My Fallkniven has a small choil at the base of the blade near the hilt. I complimented Fallkniven's owner on it's near perfect size for working survival wire. Peter replied with thanks, but pointed out that indentation and the lanyard hole were actually used during production to secure the blanks <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> At least you don't have another fad, the guthook. Friend of mine decided it was a nifty nail puller. His cosmetically 'bling bling' knife went 'ping ping' snapping in half.

I've got my choice of three blades on a stockman in my pocket that'll get through a seatbelt just as fast as any serrated blade out there. A dull blade is a useless blade.

Troy

I dont like partial. I like the whole knife to be one or the other.
I do beleive that Victorinox have started making blades with serations around the curve to the tip, and the straight edge plain, but I wont be buying one.
I dont buy knives with serations because they have them, in fact the only serated edges I have are on my multitools. I have used the serated blade on my Wave quite a few times at work on cardboard and other material that doesnt cut quite as easy with the plain edge, or when I dont want to damage my main blade. But most times I go for the plain edge.

I'm definitely a plain edge person, having lived nearly half a century without even coming close to having to slice open a seat belt. Maybe I live a boring life. I'm pretty sure my EDC Ritter mini-grip would do the job if necessary.

Campmor.com used to sell a Victorinox One-Hand Trailmaster Swiss Army Knife that had serrations on the tip half and a plain edge on the handle half. I bought one but never really liked it for two reasons:

>The blade always felt too thin/long and kind of sloppy - wiggley (hard to explain)
>I didn't want to dull up the serrations since I didn't know how to sharpen them (pre Sharpmaker days)

Campmor currently sells a One-hand Trekker, which looks very similar.

I think the Victorinox Fireman One-Hand Opener listed on http://www.knifecenter.com is a similar knife, with the same serrations, but with an added seat belt cutter blade (has a dull point).

Snapped his knife... Hahahahaha... Chris, yer killin' me... keep 'em comin' <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Try a couple pieces of nylon webbing or rope. I've found they cut better with a partially or fully serrated blade. A serrated portion can be good to get tough items started. They are also good to use as a pocket to keep the blade from slipping in the plastic packaging that is all the craze lately. Some of that rated five stitches last Christmas.

They have identical blade sets. They renamed the Trailmast to the Trekker for some reason here in the States. The Victorinox site lists it as the trailmaster. The US regional site lists it as the Trekker.

Chris, I used to make fun of hunters who bought gut hook knives. After using one it's my prefered method to make the initial cuts before skinning whitetails or axis. Try one you might change your opinion.

SGB

ironraven,

My experience with rope is very positive with serrated blades. Some of my "sharp" knives seem to slip a bit on slick plastic/nylon rope, where the serrated edges will dig in and rip its way through.

Kind of like a cutting a tomato. Using only the weight of the knife, a shaving sharp blade may sometimes slip over the skin. Take the same knife and touch up the edge with a courser stone and the rougher edge will dig right in.

Serrated knives have their place, I just personally hate sharpening them.

re: cardboard. I used to like using serrated blades to tear through the cardboard. After buying a new Al Mar Nomad I put it to work cutting up some cardboard. The flat grind and perfect edge on this knife cut through cardboard like a lesser knife would cut through note paper. I just used push cuts. No sawing motion, no slicing, just put the blade at one end and push. It was a real eye opener and one of the final clinchers for me with regards to flat grind blades.

In my infinite wisdom I thought I could improve the Al Mar edge with a bit of "pizzaman polishing". What the hell was I thinking??? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It's still a wicked cutter, but I have yet to match the factory edge.

Per a number of folks on knife and blade forums, I now use a course stone on my plain edge utility blades. It seems to be a nice way to keep a plain edge, while getting a touch of the positives of a serrated edge.

TR

I've never been a big fan of serrations, so far plain edges have managed to take care of anything I needed to cut, and that includes rescue work (cutting seatbelts and even boots).

I find plain edges more visually appealing and easier to control and field sharpen. My only serrated blades are on my multitools and a Spyderco Rescue knife I bought a while ago but never used.

BTW, removing the serrations from the Victorinox OH-Trekker is easy and it makes a great knife with a proper edge!

For recreational cutting, I prefer non-serrated blades, but all of my "automotive rescue" knives have serrations (and Spyderholes). Based on the experience of others, the time saved counts. I've not had to use them yet, but I've not ever had to use seatbelts or airbags yet either. If the time ever comes, I'll be happy to have them all.

I might add that at the last several accident scenes that I've stopped to help out at, there seems to be an increasing number of airbag related injuries. One elderly gentleman was quite dazed after his deployed, and it had evidently smashed his left hand into his window. His wrist was swelling up rapidly, and he was in a lot of pain. I witnessed the accident, and was in his car in 20 or 30 seconds, so this didn't take very long. I seriously doubt that he could have had the dexterity to open a stockman or SAK. It made me re-think my whole strategy. I vacillate between a Spyderco Rescue (fully serrated) and a pair of crash shears.

Sodak - Interesting observations, thanks for sharing. I have the S&W rescue knife (fully serrated/with glass breaker) in my vehicle, and the Spyderco rescue in my pocket.

"I vacillate between a Spyderco Rescue (fully serrated) and a pair of crash shears."

(TR thinkin' out loud)

Normally I would prefer the portability of a folding knife over shears. That said, if I had a hand injury and had to extricate myself one-handed, I think the shears would be much safer.

I try to picture how I would use the knife one-handed, using force to cut the belt. I can see the blade flinging around too much. I'd hate to gash my thigh or the arm of the person next to me as the belt lets go, or gets to the end of the blade without cutting (all this being done in a pressure situation with injuries). It just seems to me that I would have better control with a pair of shears.

I recall a discussion on a knife forum where some rescue personnel prefer the shears for the significantly improved control of shears over a blade (they also have to cut away clothing at times). You don't want to add injuries to a crash victim.

Maybe the solution is to pack a Spyderco rescue knife in your pants and keep some rescue shears in a holster securely attached near your driver's seat.

TR

I just sliced through a scrap seat belt with minimal effort using my full size Ritter. I take pains to keep it sharp though.

Regards, Vince

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Are these crash shears the same as the emt-shears?
If so I love them! Much safer in a confined space, seem to never go dull, and anyone can use them. I keep a pair in my urban utility bag (aka purse) People are also amazed that they can cut through a one cent peace. Caution if you cut enough pennies in half the joint will start to fail.
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am partial to the Jump Master version. It has both, a plain and a curved serrated blade, saw and a few other useful tools.

Jump Master


Pete

They do weaken the blade. But I think Chris was primarily poking at people who use gutting hooks stupidly

Oh, I wasn't saying they weren't better on rope. I've just noticed when I've cut webbing, the cut isn't as clean. Faster, but a little fuzzier edge left behind.

Lazermonkey,

Yes, they are the same shears. Good stuff!

Here in Australia our airbags dont have as much grunt as the US cars.
Seatbelts are compulsory here so the airbags take a secondary role. In the US they are designed to be used without a seatbelt, and when talking to car safety reps and instructors here they actually describe different sorts of injuries that you get over there and a lot seem to be wrist related as they are blown away from the steering wheel.

I have a Life Hammer in my car, and a ResQMe that travels with me. They have a protected blade that can slice a seat belt one handed. I used the Life Hammer for 5 years when I used to attend car accidents etc so I bought one for my car. Some knives designed for rescue work have a similar design, where the blade acts as the cutter when closed and there is a slot to slip the seat belt though.

Biggzie,

Using two hands so you can control the position and tension of the belt, these cutters (ResQMe) would seem to be efficient tools.

How do these slicers work when used one handed? It would seem there might be problems if the belt edge folds or there is too much slack on the belt. Any experience with one handed extrication?

Thanks, TR

If I had the pick I would choose the Lifehammer, but the ResQMe is nice and small and portable.
I've never needed either for myself, but as a rescuer, Ive found the Lifehammer is quite easy 1 handed.
If I was the one in the need and only had 1 hand, chances are that the belt would have tension, or I could move my body a little or push away with my hand as I cut to give a little tension. There is not that much gap on the ResQMe for the belt to fold, and the blade is on an angle so it pushes the belt edge flat against the plastic prong. (look at the pictures to see what I mean) The Life hammer has a bigger gap, but you also have the leverage of the handle to assist.

Another problem with the ResQMe is, dont let your wives/girl friends (or husbands) use theirs (or yours) as a letter opener. Little bits of paper clogs up at the blade edge so it wont cut the belt when needed, and its not as sharp after doing this for a while. (Dont ask me how I know this <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

I believe that Cold Steel has the name Trailmaster trademarked in the U.S., and uses it for their large bowie knife. They asked Victorinox to stop using the name, and changed the name of their knife (at least here) to the Trekker.