Perfect PSK knife?

I have found what I believe might be the perfect PSK knife. It's the Gerber "Ridge Knife". Picture at: http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic852.htm

It's AUS-6 all "stainless" steel construction, black Teflon coated, one-hand opening, with a mid-frame blade lock mechanism. The aspect that wasn't mentioned in the 2002 Shot Show review of this knife (or at least the model that I found; the belt clip looks a little different than the pic) is that it's only 3 INCHES LONG closed with a 2 inch blade length. It weighs only 1.4 oz.

It is available in plain-edge blade, or 50% serrated. I chose the half serrated model (mistake?), for the extra cutting power. I believe that if the belt clip which is fastened with 2 tiny socket-head bolts is removed with a hex key, this knife would have one of the slimmest profiles available. The lanyard hole allows the belt clip to be removed without losing much functionality. For smaller size one could even file off the lanyard hole.
Run
ps- I found mine at Walmart for $17, and seems to be high quality <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ah, another knife post to generate a mass response and get our thoughts off the latest threat of disease, world terror and the rapidly approaching doom of Monday <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Just what is it we are cutting with these small PSK blades, be they razors,x-acto blades or small folders? Are they a substitute for that dedicated sheath knife on belt or neck lanyard, or a complimentary tool? The US military has the S/S utility knife. Woodsmen and riders the stockman or trapper folders. Seamen the small sheepsfoot,marlinspike and shackle combinations and just about everybody the Swiss Army Knife or multitool. Your knife is well made and certainly emminently packable in the PSK. My concerns are the Tanto point. You need a spear or drop point to easily shave fuzz sticks for firemaking ( the curve toward the point provides the thin curling cut.) Hopefully the wire in the PSK has trapped lots of rabbits and birds for our aluminum foil cooking pot <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. While you can skin both barehanded, disjointing and gutting becomes a mess without a proper blade.The pointed tanto is just begging to puncture internal organs best left unviolated. It is a superb drilling point. The serrations are a PITA to sharpen without a proper hone. They do provide superb ripping power for line. For $17 you did well. I would rather have any small folder of quality than a razor blade. Those are for suicide when the last Lifeboat match breaks, the button compass bubble freezes the needle and you no longer recognise the face in your signalling mirror <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.

Chris,
Thanks for the information, and the hilarious way it was presented. I forgot to ask about the intended purpose of the tanto-shaped blade. I don't believe they make a different blade shape for this model, but I asked the clerk for it anyway.

>>>> another knife post to generate a mass response <<
It was an honest post! LOL

>>>> Are they a substitute for that dedicated sheath knife on belt or neck lanyard? <<
In my PSK, YES!

>>>> The serrations are a PITA to sharpen without a proper hone. <<
I gambled that if the extra cutting power of a 50% serrated blade in the PSK got me home, I could sharpen it then. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

>>>> the button compass bubble freezes the needle <<
Gerber Ridge Knife, $17; razor blade backups, $2; Peyser-SGI NATO brass escape compass (dry), PRICELESS hehe

>>>> Your knife is well made and certainly emminently packable in the PSK [ed] For $17 you did well <<

Thank you very much for the pat on the back, Chris. I'm a newbie here, and I love positive feedback. I thought it made a really good PSK knife. You rock, and this forum rocks.
Yours,
Run

ps- if anyone thinks this is a kiss-ass post, you're right. It's ok, though.....I have triple antibiotic cream in my PSK. <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The perfect survival knife is usually the knife you have with you in a survival situation. If you feel you won't have another knife with you than you may just have bought your perfect survival knife. However in the mean time you might want to consider looking into buying another knife or two and use this knife as a back up. Doug has some great info on this site about knives.

http://www.equipped.org/devices4.htm

adam said "The perfect survival knife is usually the knife you have with you in a survival situation..."

That goes for the perfect firearm too.

Adam,
Thanks for the link, I have already studied the information well. I have just purchased my first fixed blade knife, but it will never see EDC, so my PSK blade will be crucial. I think it may be the perfect survival knife! It's the Ontario SP-25 Spec Plus USN-2, an updated version of the AF survival knife. PIC

Ok, maybe not the "perfect" survival knife, with multi-pocket sheath, and a blade that will clear out jungle undergrowth, but I'm pleased! I see in the Shot Show report they have a newer, improved line than the Spec Plus, but they dont include a lanyard hole. I only like this knife better than the original AF knife in that the sheath is ballistic cloth instead of leather, which I understand will rust a carbon steel blade if neglected (been there). I really like the Kraton rubber handle as well.
Run
ps- I've been a backpacker for years, and only carried a cheap SAK copy, and never ever used it <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Blueflame,

>>>> "the perfect survival knife is usually the knife you have with you in a survival situation..." [ed] "That goes for the perfect firearm too " <<

That's a tough one, since i usually don't carry everyday. I suppose for most, that would be a compact pistol, not the best survival tool (depending on where you are of course <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I know this is hotly debated, but when I travel in the mountains, or any long drive, my perfect firearm will be the Springfield M6 rifle/shotgun over/under (respectively) in stainless. I keep a brick of .22's, some .410 slugs, and some .410 birdshot with me, and it resides in a fitted hardcase.

I lost the link, but there's a web page that describes how to "survivalize" the M6 with paracord handgrips, lanyard for the takedown pin, an empty .410 husk mini survival kit to fit in the ammo storage buttstock, etc. I've been trying to locate a source for .410 aerial flares. Springfield used to sell them but they are now a discontinued item. I found a place online that specializes mainly in novelty 12 guage rounds that sells them, but I can't get them to answer their phone! Are the .410 flares even worth finding?

Thanks for any help,
Run

ps- Sorry if I'm starting to sound like the survival version of Martha Stewart with all of the "the perfect" this, and "the perfect" that. <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Everybody wants to do a K.I.S.S. Looks like Gerber got around the patent by moving the lock to the center, but what is the "ridge" about?

I've carried a "Sampson's K.I.S.S." (a bit larger) for some time, and it's done well, but it recently annoyed me by coming open a bit in my pocket and putting a nice, neat little half-inch gash in my trousers leg. I could have lived without that.

In two of my "Altoids"-size kits I'm carrying Gerber LST knives without the clip. They actually fit without even going diagonally.

Of course, Doug had to pipe up about the "Equipped" Sebenza just when I was fishing around for a new EDC knife. I have reservations... I don't know about the new steel, but I know Chris Reeve knives in the past weren't known for high corrosion resistance, and since I'm playing more around salt water lately, I've been thinking about the Mission Titanium folder instead... though what I really need is something very FLAT for inconspicuous ("executive") EDC carry. Mutter, mutter....

Sorry, did not mean to imply everyone should carry. My point is, what you have with you and you are familiar with, is the "best" at the time.

Ah yes backpacking one of my favorite past times.....I agree that most of the time I never use a blade while backpacking so I usually don't carry much in the way of blades. But a good locking folder could be an invaluable tool when needed.

I think most people don’t pack knives in their PSK. They tend to (me included) carry a knife separate from the kit but part of the kit. When I venture into the woods I always take the least amount of gear needed to safely see me through my journey. On a day hike I have more “survival gear” then on a backpacking trip unless I’m planning an extended trip in a remote area.

I think your right that a big fixed blade knife won’t see much in the way of EDC but a 3-4” folder can easily be carried in a pocket.

None of the high carbon stainless steels are extremely corrosion resistant. That includes VG-10, ATS-34, BG-42, S30V, etc. If you're dealing with salt water and don't want to have to look after the blade you either have to go for one of the special corrosion resistant alloys or something other than steel and either way you give up sharpness and edge holding to some degree or another. You can't have your cake and eat it too. There are always compromises.

Far be it from me to argue with Doug, but...

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by extremely corrosion resistant, but I have NEVER had a VG-10 knife rust on me. I usually tuff-cloth all my knives, but even if I don't, VG-10 holds up just fine -- at least it has for me. I don't scuba dive or anything, but I live next to a brackish river, and it's usually pretty humid.

Back to the original topic: I'm holding a Schrade Simon, which seems to me to be a better design (especially the edge guard, which may not DO anything, really, but it makes me feel better about carrying the knife). However, the materials are worse. Your call, really, just wanted to present an alternative.

I'm also a big advocate of the Douk Douk, despite it being carbon steel (well, most of them).

There is a fairly recent thread re: the M6 over at www.knifeforums.com in the outdoor survival forum. Somewhere in an ancient post I gave an online site with the manual and mods for the M6. The manual has also been on EBAY recently. I would pass on the .410 flares for one very simple reason. The M6 lacks an extractor. I was considered something of a pyromaniac in the service. I had a helicopter overhead looking for me in a standard pattern. As it swung toward me I fired my entire supply of pen flares PLUS a 'borrowed' Icarus flare. The pilot ( and my former watch commander) asked if I was trying to shoot him down <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Seriously, betting on a small flare that cannot be reloaded rapidly on a fast moving search aircraft is not wise.

JamesA,

>>>> I'm holding a Schrade Simon, which seems to me to be a better design <<
I knew someone would present an alternative that I'd never seen before, doh! That definately looks like a viable contender. I have a Schrade Outback that has been very good to me, especially for the price.

>>>> especially the edge guard, which may not DO anything <<
The Gerber also has a little ridge (hence the name) for a guard that's hard to see in pictures.

>>>> However, the materials are worse <<
That's a consideration, but for around the same price as the Gerber it has the added function of a built-in carabiner clip. Does it have a slim profile?

>>>> I live next to a brackish river <<
I hope you live on a hill, or move out before you watch your refrigerator float through the kitchen window from a canoe(don't ask). <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Run
ps- the Schrade is made in the US, my Gerber is made in Taiwan <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Rusting is not the same thing (well it is technically, but that's another matter). Few of these rust in the traditional sense, but all will be affected. Look at the composition of VG-10 and you'll see why it isn't significantly more corrosion resistant than the others, just a wee bit better. The composition elements don't lie. Fact: stick any of these in salt water and they will all give evidence of corrosion to one degree or another, which was the question. It is all a matter of degree.

You'd have to define slim. The pivot screw sticks out quite a bit on either side. I'd estimate it, using the ruler on a Micra, at about 5/16ths, probably 3/16ths of which is the extra added on by the pivot.

>>>> You'd have to define slim. [The Schrade is] ...about 5/16ths <<

The Gerber Ridge Knife is also about 5/16ths (at the hinge pin or at the one hand opening stud), or about 7/16ths if the belt clip is left attached.

A friend read this thread, eyeballed online pictures, likes them both, and can't decide. He asked my opinion, and I couldn't really help without actually "feeling" the Schrade. It looks like a toss-up.

I just remembered that serrations present more edge surface area, which sounds like a good idea for a small knife. I guess I'm still happy with the Gerber. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Run
ps- what's a Douk Douk? LOL

My al mar (vg-10) rusts in my pocket(I sweat alot).
And I believe the link your looking for is here: http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html
If not, its still neat.

I've had a similar experience- I've had "high-carbon" knives rust from just salt air, with no exposure to liquid at all, and I had a Spyderco Endura that I used to wear clipped to the back of my waistband while jogging (sweat) rust on me... and, of course, innumerable cheap "tackle box" knives have rusted over the years with almost no provocation.

Diving and sailing are realms where a knife is absolutely essential (to my mind, the ban on automatic knives, aside from being just ridiculous, was especially unfair to sailors, who's lives can easily depend on a knife and who rarely have two hands free) and both realms routinely involve highly corrosive environments.

It may be true that everything is a compromise at present, but the compromises are getting better- Beta Titaniums are not bad at taking and holding an edge, are light and very corrosion resistant, some Stellite alloys are very good (but very expensive)... and Liquidmetal seems to have huge potential in the field, being light, strong, corrosion resistant, and having the potential for extremely inexpensive fabrication- it's melting temperature is low enough that knives with edges ready-to-use can be injection molded. Things may be changing in the next few years.

Maybe it's just me, but, especially as I get older, I tend to think there's some correlation between "low maintenance" and "high quality". I hate having to constantly fiddle with and baby equipment, I hate to pay a lot for something and then see that it comes with elaborate "care instructions", and, especially with survival gear, it seems to me that part of it's job is to take care of itself enough to be ready when and if it's needed.

Needless to say, there's apt to be precious little time and opportunity to baby equipment *during* a survival situation. Someone fighting for life on a boat or island is unlikely to be able to take time to rinse, dry and oil a knife to keep it from rusting.

It may be that the knife that's in routine daily use on the water will not tend to rust, as it's easy to keep an eye on, at least... but how many people on this forum are the sort of person that would go to sea with only one knife? <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Many survival items require regular maintenance. From the generator which needs to be turned over and run a few hours every month and have the gas changed or burned through each year to the medicines and Potable Aqua tablets which will be ineffective past their date. Don't even think about trying to store water indefinately. I once thought that I had sealed up some oats only to find a thriving mouse village upon opening the top. (they had long since opened the bottom!) I wouldn't want to be thrust into a survival situation with tools with which I am unfamiliar. I carry, use, sharpen, clean and oil my leatherman daily. It may not be the strongest blade or the best pliers but I know what it can do and I know how to care for it and I know it is sharp. If any corrosion should develop (hasn't yet) I will see it immediately and it will be cleaned off and re-sharpened before a week is out. If I find myself in a survival situation and I still have my belt I will also have a very sharp leatherman in clean good working order. I may also have my bushman if I was lost while camping or hiking. My PSK does have some Xacto blades and Razor blades which are marginally useful. I think that I could skin a rodent with the curved Xacto blade and I am sure I can make a decent spear with the pointed Xacto blade. I wouldn't want to have to hack my arm off with either but they are stainless, stored with light oil coating in plastic baggie in sealed PSK tin so they should be fairly sharp when needed. (unless the iodine from the PA has come loose and caused bad corrosion.) I check them every 3 months when I am resupplying my PA and Med's.

If I expected my survival knowledge to stay sharp without going outside and practicing it I would probably discover that it corrodes faster than my leatherman. At least monthly take your survival tools outside (including your head) and use them. If they require servicing, updating, refreshing, sharpening, cleaning etc. Then take care of them. If you take care of your tools they will take care of you. Unfortunately, this isn't something like changing the oil in your car that you can pay someone else to do. If you don't know how to use and care for your survival gear there won't be anyone there to help you at any price.

So, I gather you differ? <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Different approaches for different folks...

>>From the generator which needs to be turned over and run a few hours every month and have the gas changed or burned through each year<<

Yup, part of the reason I decided not to own one.

>>Don't even think about trying to store water indefinately.<<

I've had some stored for over five years. I wouldn't drink it untreated (I keep three sizes of Katadyn ceramic-element filters on hand), but the things that grow in once-potable water in storage tend to not to be very deadly and easily dealt with- not guiardia, or coliform bacteria.

As for the daily-use thing... that's not really a option for me, and I expect not for a lot of other folks, either. There was a time when I could have carried anything I liked daily, but for many years now I've been working in offices, and there are just limits. I have no problem with taking the time to get familiar with the tools, but that just doesn't mean I'm going to have them with me constantly.

>>If I expected my survival knowledge to stay sharp without going outside and practicing it I would probably discover that it corrodes faster than my leatherman.<<

On this point, we may have to just agree to disagree. I've found that most of the lessons I've learned in the wild have stuck with me for life. More time outdoors adds to what I know, but isn't really needed to refresh lessons already learned outside.

>>At least monthly take your survival tools outside (including your head) and use them.<<

Aside from the fact that this is phrased as a direct order, I'll pass, thanks. My lifestyle just doesn't allow for "at least monthly"... even "quarterly" is pushing it. And I do expect good tools, stored properly, to remain ready for use with a LOT less fuss than that. If mine aren't, they don't get babied, they get replaced with something that will be.

And I do change my own oil. You don't get Castrol Syntec 5w-50 at Jiffy Lube.

Most sincere apologies for the net-gaff of the direct order. Meant only as a suggestion. I have learned much from your posts over the past year and respect your opinion and knowledge base greatly.

Sorry to hear about the limitations of your lifestyle. It is fun to get outside atleast once a month.

I think that we do disagree by degrees not fundamentals. You acknowledge the need for care and feeding of some tools but you choose not to own such. During the blackout you will be using candles and lanterns and such whilst I will be listening to the hum of the genset and have power for my ham rig that will outlast most reasonable battery supplies. To each their own.

When I was onboard ship I was in deck department.A trick we would do is line the inside of our folding knives with a piece of oiled cordage.This helped stave off rust and I felt it also lubricated the edge in cutting.I guess it could even be used as fire tinder.This does help a lot so please give it a try.

miniMe,

No problem, such "disconnects" are inevitable in forums, in general. In return, it wasn't my intention to manufacture a cause for offense where none was intended... and I didn't think it was.

I, too, wish I could get out more often, and generally do... but just for day-long hikes and such, not often for anything that would be much of a test of survival gear... and even that has to compete with sailing, beach, car camping, vacations and travel.... there was a period of years in the past when with some friends I made a point of camping out four times a year, in all seasons... it was a great learning experience, and I miss it, but I don't think I ever did overnights (or longer) on anything like a monthly basis. I've done as much as two weeks on the trail, but not more than once a year or so.

>>using candles and lanterns and such<<

Indeed- more than a gross of candles (mostly to help out neighbors), candle lanterns, a dozen or so kerosene lanterns, three Aladdin lamps, one kerosene backpacking stove, one combination stove/small heater, two full-sized kerosene heaters (with battery powered smoke/CO2 detectors) about 60 gallons of kerosene, plus firewood, a wood stove and two fireplaces, hand-crank radios, Peltier-junction fans, not counting all the batteries and battery-powered radios and lights.... :-)

If I were into ham radio my decisions might have been different- but aside from maintenance and storage concerns, my decision was partly influenced by accounts of the big Canadian blackout, where generators were quickly stolen.

Happy to hear more of your thoughts about your approach any time, though. We're all just facing future with our best guesses, and our best guesses can, and should, change over time- or we're not learning anymore. :-)

Thanks for the tip- I'll definitely keep it in mind, though it might not work with all folding knives. I'd have to experiment to see if there's room for the blade to close completely (so the point is covered, at least). Oil does help in cutting... but maybe not with peanut butter.
<img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For the moment, for running and sailing, I got a relatively inexpensive OceanMaster titanium folding knife:

http://www.oceanmaster.com/KnivesFeatures.htm ("Server")

that seems impervious to anything, and is amazingly lightweight... but I'm not sure the edge would hold up for constant use.. it's meant for emergencies. For sailing I also own a Myerchin LightKnife:

http://www.myerchin.com/L300.html

.. but, while it's impressivley sturdy and functional, I've found it pretty heavy, bulky and magnetic (a concern if you're at the helm).

I think Chris said he's partial to MyerChin knives.

I have a Benchmade/Crawford Lepord.
It holds a very good blade but it collects dirt inside because of the holes in the side. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />