a couple anecdotes on backup navigation gear

Here's a couple accounts on the value of backup navigation gear.

- I was running an orienteering course that had a remote start. You signed out from the main registration table then walked about 1 mile to a remote start point that had the electronic timing system start/finish. Before starting from the remote point, I needed to take off my wind shell so without thinking I laid down my map and thumb compass amongst the thick layer of fallen leaves. It's just for a couple of seconds, right? I stowed the jacket, retrieved my map... and could not find the compass. I spent over 10 minutes looking for it and it could not have been more than a couple feet from me, but it was gone forever in those leaves. Luckily I always bring a spare compass, so I soldiered on with it. Lesson learned.

- Today I read in this trip report (sorry, it's behind a paywall) about a team set to trek in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. They had a good, detailed map but:



They managed to complete their trip but suffered mightily by not being able to plan for the topography to come. The simple forest service map was just enough to get by.

I always trek with a spare map, but the usual application for it is as a gift to those I come across who have a poor map, or sometimes no map at all.

Ah yes.....FS maps! Years ago, you usually had the choice of USGS topos which either dated from the 1930s or more recent works from aerial photometry which did not show the trail system accurately at all. The FS maps at least showed the trails accurately and were often more useful than the topos. Generally you knew the country was rough enough that it would be uphill both ways...

... and we were grateful!

Speaking of compasses, what ones do you use? I like the old style Military one but would be willing to learn on a different one if there was a good reason...

For land navigation, especially in hilly country with distinguishing landmarks (why would you spend time anywhere else?), almost any compass, notably any of the models featuring a base plate, will do, especially if you are only navigating and not drawing a map.

Popular question on this forum over the years.

I carry the Suunto M-3D Leader Compass as my main compass. For backup, I carry the Suunto A-10 Compass

See these threads for a lot of compass info:

Compass Question

Recommendation for a decent compass

Button Compass -- Thoughts and Recommendations

Compasses

Back up Compass

Thank you for the information.

Yeah, maps are the unsung heros of navigation.

When I was young and dumb(er) I went on a trip through the Boundary Waters (northern MN) with a small group (3 canoes, 2 per canoe) and had a blast. It wasn't until maybe 5-10 years later that it dawned on my that only one person in the group knew the route and carried the map. I couldn't recall if I carried a compass with or not. Anyway, in hind sight that was really a risky move.

In my older years I've become kind of a map & compass geek. I think it was in one of my favorite books on the topic (The Essential Wilderness Navigator: How to Find Your Way in the Great Outdoors) I found some great advice. Something like ... the key way to not get lost is to always know where you are on the map. Makes sense.

I'll second the preference for the Suunto M3 Leader baseplate compass. Its my go-to compass. I only use compasses that have adjustable declination - set and forget. I purchased and tried a good Cammenga lensatic military style compass, but without adjustable declination I still prefer a good baseplate compass.

I have one of those fancy Brunton Eclipse mirrored compasses and like it a whole lot - great for sighting, but I and others have had problems with bubbles forming in the capsule. Each time they fixed/replaced them at not cost, so kudos to them. Brunton has a new line of compasses that I have no experience with. I like the company - they brought all production back to the US, but ...

In addition to using the map and compass together I strongly recommend folks learn to use the map and compass along with their GPS. know how to find the current magnetic declination (just Google it). Learn to use UTM coordinates (Maptools.com) on a map. Learn how to set the compass and GPS to use true north so the bearings match each other.

"In addition to using the map and compass together I strongly recommend folks learn to use the map and compass along with their GPS. know how to find the current magnetic declination, etc."

I agree completely with this. One additional skill - learn and use indicators in the night sky, like the North Star, Orion's Belt,etc. They are constant, and are not affected by ore deposits and other sources of local variation. Hopefully there won't be too many clouds.....

The more arrows in your quiver, the better off you are.

A similar thing happened to me on a climbing trip years ago. My companion consulted his compass and announced our heading - SSE. It was not yet dawn and I was referencing the North Star - we were heading due East. We were in lava flows (this was Picacho Orizaba, one of the big Mexican volcanoes) and I assume the compass was off because of iron content....

Three weeks ago, my wife and I were exploring a remote area ENE of Ely, MN near the BWCAW where the roads end. There is a lot of iron in the rocks there, and in fact, there are many old mines in the area.

We were in the truck traveling SW when I noticed my trucks' magnetic compass indicating that we were going N....the wrong way. As I watched the compass, the heading changed or reversed several times, but at no time did it indicate our true heading. We were not lost, as there is only one road and we had gone to the end, did some hiking, and were returning to Ely. I had a dash-mount GPS unit in the truck, so I turned it on and obtained a true heading....WSW.

I wonder what would have happened if we were hiking up there and became disoriented (it was a grey day), and only had a map and compass to navigate.... The area is rugged, hilly, heavily wooded, with most of the remaining area covered in bogs or open water. The map and compass would have directed us into the heart of the wilderness.

I still prefer map and compass, but in iron country, the handheld GPS and a fist-full of AA's is going back into my pack.


I edited this to show me standing on the porch of an old outfitters cabin we came across along the way.

Hikermor...Sorry, I edited my post to insert a picture, and that made your comment appear before the post you commented on.

One small point on using a GPS for heading information. The magnetic compass that's available in some GPS units burns through batteries, but is not necessary if you are moving. As you walk a GPS will give you "course" (vs heading) information.

I use a GPS routinely, but I always take a compass (or two) also. Besides bears, many survival situations start with a simple navigation problem which results in a person wandering around lost or (better) grabbing a tree. Back-ups for critical items is always a good thing.

I ran into the same problem going to use a compass inside of the car. It had skewed around about 120 degrees. I've found that when all else fails, navigate by analog watch and sun.

There are so many small magnets around that are very strong a compass can easily be ruined if you get it too close to one.

The magnets I am talking about are those small rare earth type magnets which are now used for tool attachment, door closers, fridge magnets, and all sorts of other innocent looking devices.

The older magnets were usually weak enough not to be a threat to your compass but the new rare earth type magnets are strong enough to permanently change the magnetic alignment a compass needle if they are near the compass case.
So be careful around them and try not to put you compass into the same pack with one of them.

I currently have three button compasses that point southish instead of northish.

The Compass I still prefer is the Silva Ranger (Type 15) made by Silva AG in Sweden (the real Silva Company). It is sold in NA by Brunton as the Brunton Type 15TDCL Sighting Compass. It is hard to get at in Canada (and I assume in the US), where stock seems to be both sporadic and limited. If you have friends or are traveling to Britain or Ireland, they have them there.

Here is a Pic of a Type 15 being used. The other compass that is not bad is Suunto MC-2 Sighting Compass. Both these compass are liquid filled, have settable declination, and a Romer on the base plate.

Bruce, I have been using a Suunto MC-2 for the last eon or so - a great compass with the ability to measure slope angles as well. But what, pray tell, is a "Romer"?

Do I have an earlier, sans-Romer model? How many extra miles have I traveled because I didn't use the Romer?

Inquiring minds want to know......

Bruce is right on the mark.

I now use a Silva Ranger compass and find it to be very reliable.

It's adjustable for declination.

I also refer to the web site Declination to get the most accurate data in the US.

Blake
www.outdoorquest.blogspot.com

Look on the bright side. Think how much more great country your inquiring mind has visited because you didn't have a Romer!

You can also use the NOAA Declination Calculator.

Concur 100%. It is common, and appropriate, to criticize people for relying on a GPS and not knowing how to work a map & compass. However, there really are times when one tool is superior to others. I can work a map & compass pretty dang well but I shamelessly tote (and use) a GPS.

They say that mindset, strategy, and tactics outweigh equipment and it's true. But once I've got the mindset/strategy/tactics down, I want the best equipment I can get for the job.



That's a good point. I was at a shop looking at some Blackhawk lightweight cargo pants recently and they looked pretty well designed. Then I noticed the flap closures on the pockets used magnets instead of velcro or buttons. BZZZZT! That's a no-go.

For normal hiking use, could not one just use the North Star for true north and then just set off the declination with the needle (taking care to remove metal, etc. that would influence the reading)?

And just what is a Romer,anyway?

Romer Learn something new every day.

Thanks much! If anything exists, it will have a wikipedia entry. I have been using and carrying romers for years, and just never learned the-term.....

My new vocabulary word for the day.....

Have used such things as the rimer for decades, and never heard the term. Standard equipment in the military for grid coordinates.

maptools.com** sells a bunch of nice ... well ... map tools, including roamers. More importantly it has great how to's on how to use them.


One other bit of navigation advice ... if using a GPS bring along plenty of extra batteries. I once had to borrow a few batteries from a Girl Scout while trying to show them how a GPS works (Mine died and I forgot to bring extras). That may have been in my top 10 most embarrassing moments in life.


**I have NOTHING to do with this web site - financially or otherwise ... just a happy customer.

I've always thought that it was best to learn from other people's mistakes/experience. It may not have been planned, but your demonstration of what happens when you let your batteries run down without back-ups will probably stay with those students all their life -- and nobody got lost. Excellent...

I tend to leave my GPS on all day when in the field.

I'll download the track data for future presentations in the classroom.

I find that my batteries last through the day. At the end of the day I'll dump the batteries and put new ones in and then calibrate the GPS receiver's compass.

That way I am ready to go the next day and don't have to fuss around calibrating.

Blake

www.outdoorquest.blogspot.com

I agree with Glock A Roo. No device or instrument will replace making sure you have the independent skillset and can use your own surroundings to navigate when all else fails.

Nothing can replace personal responsibility, self-sufficiency and redundancy.

Even if a person chooses to get a GPS to aid in navigation, I always recommend our customers to buy a paper map [like the DeLorme Atlas and Gazetter], and take those pages with you on your trip.

Even if our customers choose the inReach Explorer, which provides GPS navigation [and has to built in digital compass, altimeter, and acceleromoter] in addition to the standard 2-way satellite communications, then I still recommend they take an atlas or a handheld compass for redundancy.

I emphasize this to the trainings I do at REI and our other retailers, that even though there are now hybrid products that provide a mind-boggling amount of functionality [like the inReach Explorer - as per feedback from REI employees], nothing should be used as a substitute for common sense, self-sufficiedncy, and a Plan B.

The important thing is that any navigation device can and will malfunction under a specific set of conditions. That said, a decent compass is generally more foolproof than a GPS receiver and does not rely on batteries.

It doesn't mean a compass will work well all the time. I've had a Suunto MC-2G develop a bubble at the worst possible moment, throwing off accuracy (by a totally unpredicatable margin) when I really needed it. But I've also had a quality GPS receiver freeze more than once, not to mention the times I couldn't get a good signal in difficult terrain, making the device pretty much useless for accurate land navigation.

Bottom line, whatever navigation device you use always double-check everything in the field - keep looking at the map if terrain features match, check the direction of sun/shadows... The more you know, the less you need to carry. All basic common sense stuff.

Tom,

I have had lots of liquid compasses develop bubbles, but I have never identified significant errors caused by them (and I have checked carefully). Any errors that might be produced are lost in the accuracy of the compass. If I need higher accuracy (still handheld), I use a Brunton Pocket Transit (in fact I use it most of the time if I know I am going to need compass because I am most familiar with it).

Respectfully,

Jerry

Sure, as long as the bubble isn't too big there shouldn't be much reason to worry. On one of my treks earlier this year though, I ended up with a bubble about the size of a dime inside my Suunto. Unless I held the compass perfectly still and level the bubble would push the needle to one side or other by quite a bit.

I realized it was bad when I checked my bearings repeatedly and got a totally different reading each time. To make things worse, GPS signal was very poor (no cellphone signal either) due to heavy tree cover and difficult terrain. So it took some serious effort to backtrack to the car safely. Luckily it wasn't more than a good couple of hours walk to get back but overall, still a pretty scary experience.

My tiny back-up compass is not liquid filled. Check out the Companion Compass. Just a little something to get you out of the woods.

There are other compasses that are not liquid filled.For a small compass there is the NATO button compass by Pyser.Tru-Nord is about the diameter of a US quarter and around a third of an inch high.For a full size I recommend the Cammenga military compass.I have this and love/hate it.It is not light by any means but is bomb proof.It is also ugly as sin and is OD green and could easily be lost.

BOATMAN
John

Looking at the County Comm compass, the review link they provide has a photo that clearly shows a bubble in the compass, so my suspicion that it is just a cheap Chinese liquid compass pressed into a brass case seems correct.

The Tru-Nord looks to be of stouter stuff, though I wish they'd make the casing out of aluminum as an option.

Yup, I've replaced the Suunto with a Cammenga GI compass. The Cammenga looks really clunky compared to a modern baseplate compass and it's definitely not as user-friendly. However, if you don't mind the learning curve (and possibly the need to carry a separate protractor for any serious map work) it is a pretty good choice and very reliable in the field.

IMHO, an average hiker/outdoorsman is better off with a Scandinavian-style baseplate compass. It's just way easier to use and works well most of the time. The only real concern in my experience is mechanical reliability. Alas, even Silva and Suunto are no longer what they used to be. Build quality has gone down quite a bit and even the high-end (read expensive) models leave something to be desired in that regard. So the good old Cammenga is still a viable alternative despite its dated design.

Carry Redundant, Robust Navigation Tools and Know How to Use them! Then Plan your Trips and Have Backup Plan just in case!