Shotgun Question

Just bought a Charles Daly model 20 ga. for home defense. I got the 20 ga. because DW and DD are a lot smaller than I am and a 12 ga. would send them over backwards. I've been looking for accessories for it and have yet to find much. Other than cartridge holders for the stock (rather generic)the pickings seem to be slim, especially for the Charles Daly model. Question: Are there places that sell things like pistol grip stocks etc., for this model? How about universal equipment? Most of what I have seen is for the big three - Mossberg, Remington & Winchester.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

I am not familiar with that brand. No offense intended, but if you planned on accessorizing the thing, why didn't you buy a model from the big three?

You might try http://www.combatstocks.com/ , or call the manufacturer and ask about compatibility with items designed for one of the big three brands. You never know ... maybe stuff designed for a Mossberg will fit it ... ask the manufacturer.

How small is "DW" mine is right at 100lbs and 5' even and she LOVES her Rem870 12ga.

I do plan to get her a 20ga for shooting clays though, something she can shoot LONG term without any issues

Charles Daly while not as big as the others is not `unknown` either.

What kind of accessories do you want? For protection just make sure it works, and maybe add a mag tube ext. on it.

I was given an Italian made Charles Daly over-and-under years ago and it's been 100% reliable.

You might go check the usual suspects like midwayusa.com, brownells.com & natchezss.com but I'm afraid you may have a hard time finding what you're looking for.

If you have a model number or anything else you can share I'd be happy to try and help Google something up.

Good luck!

The only Daly guns I am familiar with are over-unders. What is yours? I suspect that you will have a hard time finding "tactical" accessories for your weapon. As others have said, I suspect that your wife and daughter could, with a little training and experience, handle a 12 ga just fine. I shot my first at the ripe old age of five, and have seen many little bitty LEO's of both sex shoot 12ga 00 buck with no problems...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu83.htm

You might take a look, worth what you pay for the advice, but some interesting ideas put forward.

I once noticed several similarities the CD scatterguns had to Beretta firearms. It was explained to me by someone I trust in the firearms industry that they are Beretta firearms without the branding and final overall quality of fit and finish.
He assured me they will go bang just as often as the Beretta firearms, just not look as good doing it.

YMMV

Fine shotgun but I doubt you will find any accessories, the only thing I could find is camo replacement stocks, good luck.

Congratualtions on your new purchase.

As a possible alternative to going with a smaller bore for smaller people you might look around for 'low recoil' rounds. These are sometimes marked as 'low recoil-low flash' rounds. They are popular with police agencies that may end up with smaller framed men and women using the 12 gauge and who have an interest in protecting their night vision.

Essentially they are just standard round with a bit less powder in them. Just enough of a reduction to take the edge off the kick without seriously compromising the velocity. It also means you don't have a two foot long flame coming out the muzzle.

Most people don't notice the blast or flash much until they fire the shotgun in a dark and enclosed space. A standard 12 gauge round fired in a small room can temporarily rattle, deafen and blind everyone present.

It is good practice for everyone concerned to try it inside a few times to get used to this blast. A cooperative indoor range is handy for this but it isn't too difficult to rig a backstop and get a feel for it at home. I will leave the logistical details, and finer points of negotiation with the lady of the house, up to the reader. But remember that even if she loses the argument she will, by design, end up a loaded shotgun in her hands in the process. So play nice.

Congrats on the purchase.

Not sure which model you have, but the claim is that the brand new tactical guns released this month (?) will have stocks that can be retrofitted to some older models. Might want to contact CD parts department as they are planning on selling the stocks sepearately. BTW - Are you sure you want a pistol grip? Can be a little tough on the wrist, especially for wives and daughters...

Not sure what else you are looking for, but for me the best two accessories for home defense are an extended mag tube (already mentioned) and a weapon light.

The Surefire fore-grip lights aren't made for your gun, but there are a number of other lights that will fight on nearly any shotgun.

As for the extended mag tube... seems to be the hot questions lots of folks are asking with no replies.

Hope this helps,

I think you need to forget about adding whistles and bells and just learn to shoot it well. Do you want a self defense weapon or guard duty at some USAF base against sabotuers?
the late,great Bill Jordan was asked what he used for home defense. He answered his Model 12 used for upland huntingt was always by his bed.

Ole Bill was hard to beat...

Chris,

Certainly learning your gun and practicing with it relentlessly is key. No debate there.

But I disagree on one point... a weapon light. This is a HD weapon and the typical home invasion-type scenario is often in the dark of night. And unlike handguns, there is no way to hold a light while firing with a shotgun.

There is one thing that got drilled into my brain as a youngster "If you can't see it clearly, don't pull that trigger". There is no way to take it back and say sorry.

Practice, practice, practice is key for sure. And no accessory will replace that. But IMO, even a simple led flashlight securely mounted to your HD shotgun IS worth doing.

Hope this helps,

I seriously doubt you will find many, if any, aftermarket upgrades for your shotgun.

Remington>/=Mossberg>>Winchester>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everybody else.

There is no non invasive crime prevention device as effective as the sound of a pump scatter gun's action being operated.

Well, maybe the sudden appearance of a trained police K9, combined with a little barking.






"...I coming out, PLEASE don't send that dog in here.. PLEASE DON"T LET HIM BITE ME!"

One word of warning - low recoil rounds may not reliably cycle some semi-auto shotguns. I'd stick with a pump gun if you go this route.

A good light is definitely a vital addition to a home defense long gun. However, it is possible to use a handheld light with a shotgun. There are several techniques for holding both the fore end and a light at the same time. Using a hand held light is a lot more cumbersome than a weapon mounted one, but it's an important skill. If you hear a bump in the night and find the batteries in your weapon mounted light are dead, it's good to know how to back it up with a handheld light.

In addtion, if I was a burlar and saw a light my reaction would be to shoot AT the light. Look at police training. One hand has a big old maglight STRETCHED off to the side and the duty arm in the other.

I have to agree with Chris on this one. Making your shotgun 'fancy' or 'tacti-cool' will in no way increase it's effectiveness. IMHO, the only thing you need now is a few boxes of ammo and some time at your local range. You, your wife and daughter need to practice with this thing more than anything else.
Colonel Cooper once said "You are no more armed because you own a gun than you are a musician because you own a piano." You have the weapon, now it's time to gain the skill to use it both correctly and safely, and that includes your wife and daughter. Without the knowledge to use it, it's worse than useless. All of you have to be completely familiar with it - loading it, unloading it, manipulating the safety, trigger control, sight picture, shooting it, storing it safely, etc. I'd recommend getting a good book on the subject to make sure you're doing it correctly. Something from Jeff Cooper, Chuck Taylor or Louis Awerbuck would be fine. You might want to pick up a few 'dummy' rounds to practice with. You certainly don't want to be practicing with live ammo anywhere but at a range. That's a tragedy waiting to happen.
Please don't fall for the BS about a shotgun can't miss or the sound of racking the slide will make the bad guys run away in terror. The facts prove otherwise.

- Dave

Ok,

Having decided on a shotgun, made the purchase, and determined it is time to train, lets look at a light. If you mount a light, you need to train with it also. You don't want to just turn it on and go looking for the trouble. The light lets others know your coming long before it lets you know where the others are. You will probably be leaving a darkened space and your eyes will be dark adjusted. The bad guy will have come from a place of some light, so his eyes won't be as adjusted. Using the momentary on to "flash" the light will give you sight without telegraphing your approach. I am not going into the small print on weapon/light usage here, it would be a disservice to all involved.
There are plenty of books and instructors available. Now is the time to put them to use. A good instructor will teach you about safe handling, accuracy, immediate action drills, light usage, and weapon retention.

Yeah, weapon retention...

Here in DFW we recently had a home invasion where the lady of the house took the firearm from the bad guys because they were unsure of its use. In the moment of hesitation after hearing "click" (take it off safe), she grabbed the gun and handed it to her husband who had caught up to what was happening from the other room. Husband then ventilated the bad guys with their own weapon.

Look at the stats on how many LEO's are wounded/killed with their own weapon. Then weapon retention may seem more important than that light.

It would be a crying shame to see what that nice new shotgun looks like from the business end with someone else holding it.

If you are going to fire it inside, at all, please be darned sure you have good ear protection. You should have ear and eye protection when shooting any firearm anywhere. But if you fire a shotgun in basement without ear protection, you won't hear much besides ringing for a while.

Being able to load and fire rounds with little thought as to mechanics is important, and that means practice, which also helps with hitting your targets.

The next thing is knowing that the shotgun does not come out unless it is going to be used. Pulling it out with out knowing you can pull the trigger and shoot at a person is a recipe for disaster. I guess I will never know I can do it, unless ad until I have need to do it, and I hope that never happens. However, I don't think it's an issue, and I know that inflicting harm on someone has not been something I've been afraid to do in the past.

The change I want to make to DW's and my shotguns for home defense are shorter barrells.

I agree very much with practicing at the range. Maybe even shooting some clay pigeons.

I am not sure about dummy rounds for practice though. It seems a lot of people get shot with dummy shells.

I can only add that doing an armed search of your home after hearing a noise is dangerous to all involved. People who don't understand 'Condition RED' have shot their own children sneaking home late at night. This is something that under most scenarios should be left to the pros (if that's possible, of course). Not knowing the layout of your home, I can't suggest much except that I once said to a friend who told me his wife, while he was away, did a midnight search of their home armed with a shotgun after 'hearing something.' I told him I thought it was a bad idea and suggested that, if it ever happened again, she should lock herself, kids and dog in the master bedroom and call the police. Have a house key connected to either a piece of brightly-painted broomstick or a cyalume light stick and toss it down to the police when they show. Let them clear your house. If you hear something outside the bedroom door, shout out in a loud voice that you're armed and will shoot if you have to.

I have a few 12 gauge shells that are clearly marked with the word "dummy" on the side of the shell. They are completely inert and are for function testing only. There is no way to "get shot" with dummy shells unless someone foolishly mixed in some live ammo.

"...Look at police training. One hand has a big old maglight STRETCHED off to the side and the duty arm in the other..."

Actually, that is the pretty much antiquated FBI technique. Most officers/agencies found that it was pretty difficult to point the weapon with one hand and the flashlight with the other hand at the same point. Most officers nowadays either have the light attached to a rail under their weapon, or use the Harrris technique . Won't work well with a shotgun of course...

Actually, that's the 'old school' way. Training today usually teaches the Harries Technique if you're using a pistol or a weapon-mounted lamp if using a longarm. The mistake most people make is clicking the lamp on and leaving it on - thereby attracting fire. You're better off using flashlights with momentary-on buttons and 'flashing' the lamp on and off quickly, like a flash bulb. Flash it on and off - and then move.
The Harries Technique was created by the late Michael Harries. If you're right-handed, you would hold your pistol in your right hand and your flashlight in your left, with the head facing away from your thumb. Hold you right arm out as you normally would and bring your left hand, with your flashlight, under your right with the backs of your hands touching. You would then use your middle finger to turn on (and off) your flashlight if it's switch is on the side, or use your thumb to turn on your flashlight if it's switch is on the rear. The Harries Technique allows a more secure two-hand hold while still being able to use a flashlight.

"...I'd go with a weapon mounted light..."

That is without a doubt the best way. Unfortunately, it is not always an option...

If you ever need to use your shotgun for "defensive" uses, all those bells and whistles will not make you look good in front of a jury. You can bet a good prosecutor will point out every addition at least once and possibly several times to the jury. Stick with factory components and factory loads.

Ah, that is the rub isn't it, Lumpyjaw.
Nothing is ever fool proof, but we try to make things as foolproof as possible.

Anyhow, others have pointed out the legal implications of turning your sporting gun into an assault weapon.

Nobody has mentioned that doing so makes it into a less effective hunting or sport weapon.
If all the fancy tactical stuff actually helped you point or shoot faster then the people who shoot at skeet competitions would all be doing it.
A shotgun with a well fitted stock and a coach length barrel is still the fastest pointing firearm you can find.

Thank you for all the input/insight to my questions. After reading all of the above, I've decided that the gun looks fine and I like it jsut the way it is.

Probably a wise choice. The only mod I have made on my 870 (factory 20" barrel with rifle sights installed) is a sidesaddle for six spare rounds...

Nice gun, being a lefty, I like a Ithaca 37 with a 20" rifle sited deer barrel

The Ithica works for a lot of people...

According to what is most important to the lefty (safety catch or ejection port) either the Mossberg (safety on center of receiver) or Ithica (bottom ejection). I used to get left hand safeties on all my Remingtons, but then realized when loaning one to a right hander it made for confusion. I just adjusted to right hand safety.

Of course we have glossed completely over the Benelli (sp?) line of shot guns. Kinda high dollar compared to an 870 express though.

True, but the folks shooting skeet aren't generally doing it in the dark.

That said, the only modifications I really consider necessary on a home-defense shotgun are a good light and a sling.

"...Kinda high dollar..."

KINDA high dollar?

Just out of curiosity, why do you consider a sling necessary for a home defense shotgun???

How big is your house that you need a sling??? I am in right at 4000 Sq. Ft. and I have yet had to sling arms inside.

Please don't tell me it is for retention, I carried one of these in the past. Unless it is a three point, a sling is almost useless as a retention device.


Edit:
"...Just out of curiosity, why do you consider a sling necessary for a home defense shotgun???"
OBG you type faster than me.

Correct. I'm so used to using and thinking about shotguns being pump actions I left out that point. Good catch.

The standard low-recoil rounds will cycle most automatics, but not all. Some guns just need a good cleaning and others can be tweaked by a gunsmith to get good result but, as with any new firearm-ammunition combination, people need to experiment to find out if they work well in your particular gun before depending on them.

"...you type faster than me..."

At least I have you beat in one thing...

Well, what self respecting thief would be stumbling around in the effen dark?
Not only couldn't you see what you were stealing, you might bump your shin on the coffee table or trip over something and hurt yourself.

It isn't unheard of to 'short cycle' a pump action.
I owned what has still got to be the scariest shotgun ever sold; a 1897 Winchester external hammer pump in factory riot configuration.That dog ear laid back left no doubt as to it's intent.
Then I went even more failproof. I bought a belgian guild gun in 16 guage with hammer sidelocks and cylinder bores.You want to really impress people? Slowly cock both hammers back on a snake eyed double.

Do you still have that old trench broom?? Dad had one he carried in Vietnam. I have been trying to find one in good condition that isn't priced like a new BMW.

Bottom ejection port and a left handed safety. All my guns have a left hand safety.

A perfect under the bed gun, leave the chambers loaded, and the hammers down. Danger threatens, and Click, click you are ready.

The sue the homeowner for leaving things in your way - Sigh.

Agreed! Just some tape over the muzzle to keep something from nesting in the barrels and I'd think you're set.

As for lights for a home defense shotgun, I prefer Dan Akroyd's solution from the movie "Neighbors". Quite effective!