OVERBOARD VEST FEEDBACK ANSWER--THANKS

some good ideas--just so you don't have to run thru the
entire post again i'll put a few comments here..



this is the sort of big wilderness lake i would be up against.
in this photo i was crossing the inside of that large bay in
rough but stable water when i saw a very heavy wind comming
from the north..you can see the whitecaps out in the blue
water..i made for shore and was pulling the gear out when the
wind hit..my canoe is very satble and made to travel thru this
sort of country but i'm not a trapper heading for his cabin
with a load of fur..i'm on vacation so solid ground is better
than a wind whipped lake..
looking back at this photo i thought what a joke the flasher
on the PFD was..who would be around to see it and how would
it show up if i was out in the middle of that lake..
if i could swim off a lake like this and get ashore with
enought energy to get a fire going and make a shelter the
plan was to hang the flasher by the shore to attract attention.

OK..about your good comments...a knife--i carry one on my
belt most of the time..a Mora 2000..it's a good size sheath
knife that would handle most chores..in warm weather when
it's shorts and a tee shirt i keep a SAK in a zippered
pocket..
the compressed soup only comes in pea as far as i know.
pea soup with bacon fat in it is very high in food value
which is why is was used as a iron ration..

water bag--i will add one to the kit..having water in camp
will be handy..the lake water is about as pure as it gets
and as i drink it all the time--for many years--i don't
need treatment tabs..

the duct tape is the small rolls you can now get in a 3 pack
at REI..it seems to hold up well but i'll swap it out and
take fresh rolls and keep the used for odd jobs at home.

heatsheet??--they seem too bulky for a PFD pocket..i have
not seen one in real life but i'll check it out..the mylar
blanket is to be used as a roof for a shelter and the
bag as something to try and keep warm and dry in..
lifeboat matches have a shelf life???..i'll swap those
out too..what i would like to find is a lighter--not
a Bic--that with one press you can get a large strong
flame that keeps going without holding the starter down..
a old Zippo fills the bill and i see butaine lighters
that might work..i have read accounts when people are
so cold and shakeing that striking a match or holding
a lighter is just about impossible..and i don't want
sparks--if there was a one shot--pull the tab and drop
in a pile of wood fire starter i would like to find it.
i have a whistle on the PFD--i would spent a lot of time
blowing on it..i have been in places where i have not seen
anyone for days and then around a point comes a couple
canoe loads of fisherman or another solo tripper out
on his adventure..the park service also makes fly overs
but they are not looking for lost campers but watching
for fires and are kind of high up...
but the chances are small that i might have to use
that PFD --falling down on the portage and busting
a hip is far more likely--thats another story--

I believe a pyrotechnic flare would fit that bill pretty well. It’s not too far-fetched for a boater/canoer to carry, either.

I have used a road flare (fusee) with good results in starting fires in the past. They a a little long for personal carry but I think the rear-end could be shortened.

I do not know how waterproof they are?

Mike

Not especially, from what I have heard. In fact, if they get wet, they start getting hot. I don’t really know much about why, as I haven’t dunked flares to find out, and I don’t think I’m going to any time soon.

Hi JCWohlschlag,

I have carried road flares in my truck kit for years and do know that if they sit in the bottom of a damp tool box of a long time (might have been years) the fusee expands and the outer casing splits (big mess).

I will test the waterproofness of a road flare this afternoon and post the results.

(LOL, I can hear the fire trucks already).

Mike

Hi,

I soaked a road flare (fusee) in a pail of water for two hours then buried it in the snow for two hours. The flare was the type with a plastic cap that is removed to expose the striking surfaces. To ignite you remove the cap from the flare, and the top from the cap; you then strike the cap on top of the flare to make a spark and ignition (think of it as a giant safety match).

It seems that the water deteriorated both of the ignition striking surfaces and I was unable to light the flare at all. I thought it might just be the flare because they are quite old and beat-up, but a second one from the same box lit easily. These things burn great and I had planned to cut one down for use as my winter last-chance SHTF fire making option, I guess I need to re-think that idea.

I need to try the test again with a brand new flare and also the type that has the striker end wrapped in a plastic film (not as easy to remove as the plastic cap).

I will post the outcome.

Mike

I hope Blast dosen't see this he may get upset thinking someone is trying to out do him.

A boaters/marine store have smaller and water proof flares.

Just put the flares in a strong plastic bag and tie a knot in the neck.
The Sock

A fueled zippo in a plastic bag is hard to beat as a fool-proof fire starter (with extra flints under the wick of course). Add an easily accessible candle and you're set. Cheaper and easier than worrying about flares IMO.

The Heatsheet blanket is the same size a mylar sheet blanket, the bivy rolled up is about the size of a clementine.

And I don't think you'll find a lighter like what you are describing- there would be safety concerns that would probably bar it from being sold in most of the Western world. At least when you are talking pocket sized; get into things like blow torches, there are different factors.

And what you are describing with the "pull tab and drop" type of fire starters are probably closest to the half sized Orion hand flares that I used to see occasionally. Basically, a 5 minute road flare, about 3.5-4" long.

I once had a car with a leaky trunk seal.

I would rephrase your questions as "how waterproof they aren't".

The following two links are about hypothermia kits and how to use them for adventure kayaking type events, all based around a PFD. The hypo kit is a good start and does not rely on a fire for heating in the immmediate aftermath; rather heat retention and small heat addition. Take a look.

Everglades challange, emergency action
http://www.watertribe.com/Magazine/Y2002/M12/SteveIsaacWhenGodsPlay.aspx

Hypothermia kit
http://www.watertribe.com/Magazine/Y2002/M12/SteveIsaacMakeAHypothermiaKit.aspx

Bill

last time i tryed lighting a fire with a flare it was a total
wash-out..this was late 50's--yup..scouts again..we had been
playing around with road flares using them to melt caves
in snow banks..so i took one on a winter camping trip..
when we had a big pile of wood ready to light i did a--
"check this out!!!" and tossed it in the pile--zip--zero--
burned all the way down while we watched..i was flumuxed--
but--but--it's making flames..at this point our wise old
scoutmaster steps forward----it's a chemical fire boys--
its not making enought heat--lesson learned..not all flame
burns with the same amount of heat....i have thought about
wraping a flare in magnesium ribbon..and other "bomb" like
devices...heat tabs--fatwood sticks--in short someway a
cold,wet.numb person could light a fire with big easy
movements rather that trying to work a lighter--sparker
or strike a match...

Whenever I bought a zippo I always put about 5 or 6 of them under there so I'd never have to worry about it. I never went through more than 4-5 flints before the lighter itself was lost or stolen. Oh well, at least it was a good excuse to buy another one.

I wish I could find an old Vu-lighter. They worked about the same as a Zippo, but had a clear base filled with lighter fluid, and a smaller "cotton" area above. When it wouldn't light anymore, you turned it upside down, pushed a little button for a few seconds, and fluid flowed into the cotton. That way, you did not have the fuel evaporation problem you have with a Zippo. Might have to check on e-bay or something I guess...

i have see Zippo adds in older outdoor magazines--40-50's
the drawing showed a hunter warming a cup of coffee over a
Zippo lighter..the text was something like--only the Zippo
will stay burning--other lighters i assume were lighter
fluid versions of the Bic..strike--light and when you took
your finger off the lever it was capped and snuffed out..
the Zippo lit and with the top flipped back would burn untill
the fluid was gone...
i brought up the idea of a "fire bomb" because i have read
accounts of fire light problems in do or die situtions..
a very good book on outdoor survival is "the long labrador
trail" by Dillon Wallace--1905 or so..while making a frantic
rush down a rapid filled river as winter was comming on he
and his partner overturned ..getting ashore in a state of
hypothermia they tryed to start a fire..Dillon's partner
stumbled around trying to set trees on fire by holding a match
to a branch--he was really out of it...Dillon pulled some
sticks together--getting the safe open involved teeth--
numb hands..so on---he had only a few left in the safe
and the first ones failed to light--with "new style" matches
gone he tryed a "old"sulfur match lit on the the first
try---fire going--lives saved--Wallace went on to become
one of American's best know outdoor personalities...
so a "pull the tab and drop" fire lighter seem like a
good idea--however..now that i think about it..that sort
of device may be not be lawful these days...